| previous topic :: next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Jim Price
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 4817
Location: Altoona, PA
|
 Posted: Wednesday Jun 14, 2006 |
|
|
(From WTAE-TV's website:)
The issue of banning smoking inside all public buildings in Pennsylvania was the subject of debate in Harrisburg on Tuesday (6/6).
The state House of Representatives' committee on Health and Human Services killed legislation that would have enacted a clean indoor-air policy throughout Pennsylvania.
House Bill 1489 would have expanded the list of public places where smoking is banned to include all indoor areas and workplaces, including bars and restaurants.
Some local restaurant owners are breathing a sigh of relief, fearing the smoking ban could hurt their business.
But, the decision disappointed others who favor smoke-free environments.
"I … am a nonsmoker and I don't like the smoke. And I can't breathe when people are smoking," said Scott Kramer at the Tiki Lounge in the South Side.
"People when they go out to drink or eat they like to smoke, to relax. They're unwinding after work," said Fat Heads General Manager Gary Pfeil.
_________________
http://pamusician.net |
|
| Back to top » |
|
 |
bassist_25
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 14, 2006 |
|
|
Thank God!
If they had banned smoking in bars, we might as well have all put our equipment up on Ebay.
_________________
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
|
| Posted: Sunday Jun 18, 2006 |
|
|
I agree, I could probably count on one hand the number of people I know personally that don't smoke, at least while they are out drinking.
_________________
Stand back, I like to rock out. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Sunday Jun 18, 2006 |
|
|
| MeYatch wrote: | | I agree, I could probably count on one hand the number of people I know personally that don't smoke, at least while they are out drinking. |
That's the thing... most people just do it because A) they can B) it already smells like ass, so why not get a buzz C) "they're out having fun"
The problem I see with it is that the health concerns for people that work in bars are numerous.
I've heard the argument that "oh, people choose to work in bars." Well that one is crap. Someone HAS to work there. So they get exposed to it. Additionally, if they get sick or get cancer and have a health plan, it makes the health plan costs go up. I'm already paying enough for that crap.
I've lived in cities where there was a ban in bars on smoking. Didn't hurt business one bit. If you can't go a few hours with out a smoke... or at least step outside, you have a problem.
To anyone thinks they will have to sell their sound gear... try doing that with the smell of smoke burnt into them and amplifiers that have internal guts coated in tar.
I think one of two things needs to happen... they either need to ban it everywhere except your own home, or put the most magical smoke eaters you've ever seen everywhere so my clothes don't get ruined. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Lisa
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 638
Location: Houtzdale
|
| Posted: Monday Jun 19, 2006 |
|
|
Everyone in life has at least two choices on everything they do, say, think, feel, etc. I don't know of anyone who does not have a choice to work in a bar. Heck, even if you own it, its your choice.
If a non-smoking environment is so hot....why doesn't someone open up a bar that is non-smoking...make that choice. See if you have any business. See if they have enough employees who don't smoke and want to work in an non-smoking environment.
No one HAS to work in a smoke fill bar. It was their choice to do that job in that place. They wanted to earn the tips most likely.
If someone had a gun to my head, wanting all of my money...I still have a choice. I have a choice in everything. I just have to deal with the consequences of MY CHOICE. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Monday Jun 19, 2006 |
|
|
| Lisa wrote: | Everyone in life has at least two choices on everything they do, say, think, feel, etc. I don't know of anyone who does not have a choice to work in a bar. Heck, even if you own it, its your choice.
If a non-smoking environment is so hot....why doesn't someone open up a bar that is non-smoking...make that choice. See if you have any business. See if they have enough employees who don't smoke and want to work in an non-smoking environment.
No one HAS to work in a smoke fill bar. It was their choice to do that job in that place. They wanted to earn the tips most likely.
If someone had a gun to my head, wanting all of my money...I still have a choice. I have a choice in everything. I just have to deal with the consequences of MY CHOICE. |
Brilliant.
There are lots of choices in life that are a choice between dangeroous and not so dangerous. If the world worked according to your master plan, I could choose not to have safe electrical wiring in my bar and possibly burn the place down and/or electrocute someone.
There are laws and regulations for things that most people feel are too dangerous to sit around and not do anything about. IMO, smoking has proved itself to be one of these.
Additionally... the only freedom you have in this country to do as you please is to speak, organize peacefully, and practice religion (or not). All I'm saying is that when someone smokes inside a building they infringe on others personal space with the smell and smoke.
Lastly, everyone around here wonders why attendance is down in bars... well I'm here to tell you that I know a ton of people that specifically DON'T go to bars or don't go as often as they might because of the smoke.
I really have to laugh at the things I read about club attendance going down in bars once smoking was banned. People don't go to bars to smoke. They go there to dance, hear a good band, drink, and have fun.
It's a childish and selfish standpoint to take in that smoking is your "RIGHT." There is nothing in the constitution that states as such, and you ruin not only your own health, but that of others... that's the largest difference I see between drinking beer. That only affects YOUR liver, and only if you drink a whole f'ing lot of it. Moderate alchohol consumption has been shown to actually increase the overall health of most people. Smoking has no such positive side effects.
I don't disagree that an idividual person has the choice to work in a bar... but unless you want to pour the beer yourself, wash the glasses, and play the music SOMEONE has to do the job in the bar. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
|
| Posted: Monday Jun 19, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: |
Lastly, everyone around here wonders why attendance is down in bars... well I'm here to tell you that I know a ton of people that specifically DON'T go to bars or don't go as often as they might because of the smoke.
|
I take it that you own a bar, why don't you try making it non smoking and see if it becomes the new hot spot?
my guess is no....
_________________
Stand back, I like to rock out. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
DirtySanchez
Diamond Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 4186
Location: On teh internetz
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
It's not written in the constitution so it's not your right?
There sure would be a lot of brokeass divorce lawyers.
How about taking a shit in a public restroom.
Man that fucking irritates me. I go in expecting the fresh smell of a urinal cake and POW somebody blew the fucking place up.
Shit at home it's not your constitutional right to shit in a public restroom.
Why must we be retarded just for arguments sake.
Go find a third grader and have a conversation more suitable to your IQ.
_________________
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
DirtySanchez
Diamond Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 4186
Location: On teh internetz
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
PS.- A ton of people? My band weighs half a ton and we're only a four piece. So that's not too many even if they're skinny what maybe 12.
I know that many people who don't go to church because they just don't believe like that. Does that mean they're right?
_________________
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
dude, that shitting in a public restroom analogy...
I couldn't have thought of anything more perfect to say.
_________________
Stand back, I like to rock out. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
I wonder why the PC crowd isn't going after workplaces like machine shops where you have all sorts of oils, fumes and metal flakes floating around in the air 24/7. You should see what happens to a sheet of paper after a day in that environment. Then there are the coal mines...you don't see the wannabe megalomaniacs pushing state bans on mining, now do you?
These would-be elitists look down their nose at smokers and will do anything to extinguish this (in their estimation) 2nd class citizenry's smoking habit and the owner's God given right to do with their private property as they see fit.
Just like DUI quotas, smoking is now "in season" and will be held hostage by a small group of hypocrits. There goes another hole in the Constitution
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time... |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Jerry C
Active Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Northern Cambria, Pa.
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
I agree that opening a non-smoking bar would be risky, but I think if the non-smokng law was passed for all places, it wouldn't affect attendance. People are not going to sit home because they can't smoke at a bar. I don't believe that the only reason they go there is to smoke. I have been to some local smoke-free restaurants, and I see people who smoke eating there. They would be smoking if they were allowed, but they still go there because of the food or service or what ever other reason. I have been to smoke-free wedding receptions and guess what, people that smoke still go. They just go outside to smoke, but they don't stay home because they can't smoke.
My point is that businesses and people's night lives will still survive if the law would ever pass. It would be a big change, but people would adapt.
_________________
If you book them, they will come..... Night Train Rocks!!!!!!!
www.nighttrainrocks.com
www.jerrysfault.com |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Tuesday Jun 20, 2006 |
|
|
| MeYatch wrote: | dude, that shitting in a public restroom analogy...
I couldn't have thought of anything more perfect to say. |
Perfect to say... the fuck it is.
Smelling shit is not hazardous to your heath, Einstien. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| lonewolf wrote: | | I wonder why the PC crowd isn't going after workplaces like machine shops where you have all sorts of oils, fumes and metal flakes floating around in the air 24/7. You should see what happens to a sheet of paper after a day in that environment. Then there are the coal mines...you don't see the wannabe megalomaniacs pushing state bans on mining, now do you? |
Ahhh... what the hell country have YOU been living in??? Mine safety has been come a priority issue in these parts. But hey... they "choose" to work there so what can we do about it?"
Maybe now you understand the point. Just because on area of life hasn't been cleaned up safety wise doesn't mean you can't start somewhere.
If we lived by your ideals, nothing would ever get fucking done in this country. At least some people have the balls to step up and start to do something about it.
| Quote: | | These would-be elitists look down their nose at smokers and will do anything to extinguish this (in their estimation) 2nd class citizenry's smoking habit and the owner's God given right to do with their private property as they see fit. |
Whatever. That's a bunch of shit. I work at what I would consider a "white collar" facility and there are just as many smokers there as there are anywhere else. That bullshit has been force fed to you and brainwashed your ass.
The Tobaco companies in this country are causing the cost of healthcare to go up an extroidinary amount and no one is saying two shits about it.
Once the truth gets out and you find out they've been lacing those death sticks with addictive agents maybe then you'll wise up a bit.
| Quote: | | Just like DUI quotas, smoking is now "in season" and will be held hostage by a small group of hypocrits. There goes another hole in the Constitution |
So you have a problem with the law hunting down the fucking MORONS that decide to drive home intoxicated.
Keep them coming this stuff is good. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| Jerry C wrote: | I agree that opening a non-smoking bar would be risky, but I think if the non-smokng law was passed for all places, it wouldn't affect attendance. People are not going to sit home because they can't smoke at a bar. I don't believe that the only reason they go there is to smoke. I have been to some local smoke-free restaurants, and I see people who smoke eating there. They would be smoking if they were allowed, but they still go there because of the food or service or what ever other reason. I have been to smoke-free wedding receptions and guess what, people that smoke still go. They just go outside to smoke, but they don't stay home because they can't smoke.
My point is that businesses and people's night lives will still survive if the law would ever pass. It would be a big change, but people would adapt. |
This man get's an A+. Well said Jerry. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
Lisa
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 638
Location: Houtzdale
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
I still say let it fall upon the choice of the customers and the business itself. We have a dining room that is completely smokefree. The bar isn't. If someone wants to come out and eat, have a few drinks in a smoke free environment, they can. Of course, later in the night, when there is no one else dining, it would get awfully lonely in the dining room.
Bars are fighting now with the fact that people are not coming out like they use to. It has nothing to really do with the bars themselves. There are just more things that a person can do at home among friends...with the invent of the internet, great video game developments, nothing like a good texas hold'em game (can't do that in bars with money), huge tv screens to watch sporting events, etc people just don't need to come out and be entertained as much. That's what the bands and the bars are loosing out to.
Smoking bans won't really ruin it for us...we can always take advantage of our deck...put some outside heaters on them in the winter time to accommondate the smokers because they can take the drinks out there. But that does not mean I'm for it...its all about choices.
But I truly don't think that a smoking ban would change things...its lifestyles of the american public that has changed. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
DirtySanchez
Diamond Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 4186
Location: On teh internetz
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
G1wgs is right, if shit were deadly his posts would have killed us long ago.
I mean my mom's allergic to bee's and bee's are nowhere specifically mentioned in the constitution so I'm gonna fight to have them banned.
One bee sting could kill her, I never heard of one cigarette killing anybody.
_________________
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
I dunno, I bet if you spent an appreciable amount of time breatching in the fumes of nasty shit there would have to be some sort of health hazard.
I agree that a ban of smoking in all public places wouldn't effect attendance a whole lot. For every smoking-nazi that will refuse to go out becuase he can't smoke is one nonsmoking-nazi that refuses to go out now.
but the vast majority of us just don't care, and basically get sick of listening to people like you whining all the time about it.
_________________
Stand back, I like to rock out. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: | | MeYatch wrote: | dude, that shitting in a public restroom analogy...
I couldn't have thought of anything more perfect to say. |
Perfect to say... the fuck it is.
Smelling shit is not hazardous to your heath, Einstien. |
OK, here's a perfect analogy:
Unlike 2nd hand smoke in a bar, there is undisputed medical evidence (as opposed to weak statistical correlation) that high SPL levels over long periods of time cause permanent hearing damage.
With this preponderance of medical evidence, we should ban PA systems from restaurants and taverns.
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time... |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
yes, probably an even better analogy.
my friend's girlfriend was with us when we saw bad daze at city limits last saturday, and she's sitting there saying "they need to turn it down!"
Its part of the experience!
loud music, smokey barrooms, you might even get a drink spilled on you
oh no!
_________________
Stand back, I like to rock out. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: | | lonewolf wrote: | | I wonder why the PC crowd isn't going after workplaces like machine shops where you have all sorts of oils, fumes and metal flakes floating around in the air 24/7. You should see what happens to a sheet of paper after a day in that environment. Then there are the coal mines...you don't see the wannabe megalomaniacs pushing state bans on mining, now do you? |
Ahhh... what the hell country have YOU been living in??? Mine safety has been come a priority issue in these parts. But hey... they "choose" to work there so what can we do about it?" |
You should pay attention to a post before you criticize it. Whether it is an issue or not, "you don't see the wannabe megalomaniacs pushing state bans on mining, now do you?"
I fail to see any difference between the rights of a machinist, a coal miner and a bartender to choose where they work.
What's the difference? The schmucks in Harrisburg know they can run roughshod over small business owners and the public at large without any real opposition. They are scared shitless of big-manufacturing, big-mining and last but not least...big-tobacco.
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time... |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: | | lonewolf wrote: | | These would-be elitists look down their nose at smokers and will do anything to extinguish this (in their estimation) 2nd class citizenry's smoking habit and the owner's God given right to do with their private property as they see fit. |
Whatever. That's a bunch of shit. I work at what I would consider a "white collar" facility and there are just as many smokers there as there are anywhere else. That bullshit has been force fed to you and brainwashed your ass. |
To clarify. My definition of a "would-be elitist" is a high-profile personality that is pushing any number of PC issues because they think they know what's good for you and me. This would include, but not limited to politicians, political organizations, members of the press, etc. Got any of those in your "white collar" facility?
I did not mean to infer non-smokers. I am a non-smoker
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time... |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: | | The Tobaco companies in this country are causing the cost of healthcare to go up an extroidinary amount and no one is saying two shits about it. |
Its because the anti-smoking crowd keeps missing the target. Instead of tramping on our rights, they should go after the source and just focus on banning tobacco.
Meanwhile, don't tell me where I can and cannot use a legal substance.
(unless, of course, you are the PLCB...which needs dismantled)
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
Last edited by lonewolf on Wednesday Jun 21, 2006; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
lonewolf
Diamond Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| g1wgs wrote: | | lonewolf wrote: | | Just like DUI quotas, smoking is now "in season" and will be held hostage by a small group of hypocrits. There goes another hole in the Constitution |
So you have a problem with the law hunting down the fucking MORONS that decide to drive home intoxicated.
Keep them coming this stuff is good. |
PAY ATTENTION! I have a problem with quotas, not legitimate law enforcement.
_________________
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time... |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
g1wgs
Active Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Wednesday Jun 21, 2006 |
|
|
| lonewolf wrote: | | g1wgs wrote: | | MeYatch wrote: | dude, that shitting in a public restroom analogy...
I couldn't have thought of anything more perfect to say. |
Perfect to say... the fuck it is.
Smelling shit is not hazardous to your heath, Einstien. |
OK, here's a perfect analogy:
Unlike 2nd hand smoke in a bar, there is undisputed medical evidence (as opposed to weak statistical correlation) that high SPL levels over long periods of time cause permanent hearing damage.
With this preponderance of medical evidence, we should ban PA systems from restaurants and taverns. |
Ummm then maybe the band that is TFL should just turn down a bit. Bands that play to the point of ear pain are ridiculous IMO.
Additionally, there are ways to protect your hearing that are reasonably inconspicuous and won't get in the way of doing their work. They could wear gas masks I guess for the smoke, but it would be pretty hard to talk to the customers.
Additionally, hearing damage doesn't kill. It maims slightly. Smoke can kill. I think MOST sensible people would agree that 8 hours of smoke exposure for a long period of your life is WAY worse than 8 hours of loud music. The connection to loud music and hearing loss is one that is well studied, and it is not the same as a Machinist that has constant noise exposure. The nature of the sound is QUITE different from the dynamic nature of music. OSHA guidlines are for noise exposure not music... and the music lasts in a few 45min-1hour stints with breaks inbetween ON WEEKENDS for most bars. This is no where NEAR the amount of smoke exposure they have.
The analogy is bunk IMO. |
|
| Back to top » |
|
|
|
