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Hawk
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Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 5332
Location: Central PA
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 Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Maryland is now smoke free as of today.
I know this has been talked about on Rockpage before, but more states seem to be banning smoking in public places.
Will Pennsylvania follow ?
I'm anxious to see how the clubs / bars do in Maryland.
I know some people around here who won't go to a bar because of the smoke. As a non smoker I'm for a ban, but I can't really decide if it's right or wrong.
What's your opinion on banning smoking, and do you think it will hurt the bar scene ?
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soundman8199
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 157
Location: Cresson, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I have to agree, Bill. I'm also a non-smoker & i would like to see a smoking ban. A couple months ago i worked with a band in a smoke-free bar in Johnstown, i loved it. I was able to breathe clean air all night & not have to worry about my equipment getting saturated with cigarette smoke.
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tonefight
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 1409
Location: Ebensburg
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I was in Ohio for some work training this past summer and the smoking ban out there had just went into effect earlier that year. The bar owners do claim it hurt their buisness.
I smoke 1 1/2 packs a week right now ( used to smoke that a day ) but I do get the craving more when I drink. I looked at it with an open mind and dealt with it.
All in all I think people will get used to it if it happens.
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Jim Price
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Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 4817
Location: Altoona, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I think it inevitably will happen here in PA, too. It's happening worldwide as well; France just started a smoking ban in public places this year.
I've dealt with second-hand smoke all my life, so I'm pretty used to dealing with it in the bar scene. But I'll welcome not having to deal with cigarette smoke if the ban goes through. I won't miss having my clothes smelling like cigarettes at the end of the night.
I'd expect that initially, it might have some negative impact as some smokers stay away because of the ban. But I think you'd soon see an influx of non-smokers and others (people suffering from asthma or other respiratory conditions) coming out instead. And I think even a number of smokers would probably eventually return, realizing that the ban wouldn't be going away and they're missing out on the fun for the benefit of a few cancer sticks.
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YankeeRose
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Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 2523
Location: Altunea, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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One Friday last year, some friends and I briefly went into a club for a drink in State College. I believe it was Zeno's. It was "Smoke-free Friday", and the place was packed!  While a non-smoker, friends and relatives do, so while I would like to see the ban, I'm of the mind what ever happens, happens.
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Primates
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I am a smoker. And there is only ONE botom line to my opinion.
Who the hell is ANYONE to tell me what i can or cant do. I'm not bothering anyone and im not breaking the law. However, Should such a law be passed "banning" me from smoking. You guys will see me in jail. Because i will get a carton and find the worst possible place and light up. And i will keep doing it.
Every day its like we take a step towards the same shit Hitler did inside Germany. What's next? We start frying Albinos? Hey fuck it...while we're at it lets ban people from scratching their ass and picking their nose! |
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Team Transylvania
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RobTheDrummer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 5228
Location: Tiptonia, Pa
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| Primates wrote: | I am a smoker. And there is only ONE botom line to my opinion.
Who the hell is ANYONE to tell me what i can or cant do. I'm not bothering anyone and im not breaking the law. However, Should such a law be passed "banning" me from smoking. You guys will see me in jail. Because i will get a carton and find the worst possible place and light up. And i will keep doing it.
Every day its like we take a step towards the same shit Hitler did inside Germany. What's next? We start frying Albinos? Hey fuck it...while we're at it lets ban people from scratching their ass and picking their nose! |
Some people look at it as you are bothering people. The people that like clean air have a right to breathe, that's the argument.
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songsmith
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Joined: 09 Dec 2002
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Location: The Wood of Bells
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Word.
Notice how the only people saying NO to a smoking ban are (cough-cough) smokers. The only people who can find any way at all to justify it are those trying to justify their own habit. And using Hitler of all people as a reference? Wow.
How about this: Allow smoking, AND public urination. You may smoke, and I may piss on you. Fair is fair... smoke is carcinogenic, stinks, and is unhygienic... pee may be unhygienic and smell bad, but is not found to cause cancer in laboratory animals. Next time some a-hole feels his "right" to smoke outranks your right to not smoke...
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tonefight
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 1409
Location: Ebensburg
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I actually don't feel comfortable smoking in close proximity to nonsmokers and we aren't being told we can't smoke, just go outside, I'm fine with that. I'll smoke less. I've accepted it and it really wasn't that hard to get used to when I was in Ohio, once you know you can't have a cigarette in the bar (and accept it) you actually won't crave it as much.
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lonewolf
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: Anywhere, Earth
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Just another example of more individual private property rights going down the tubes. It has been legally upheld on the old OSHA trick--the employees have a right to work in a non-smoking environment.
This makes the Patriot act look like the Freedom Of Information act.
Deep fried food and soda pop will be next.
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Last edited by lonewolf on Sunday Jan 06, 2008; edited 1 time in total |
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songsmith
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Location: The Wood of Bells
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| Good post, tonefight. I'm not asking everyone to quit smoking, just do it somewhere else, or run the risk of me doing something gross and over-reaching to them. It's not a rule, it's way of keeping things fair.--->JMS |
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Plastered Bastards
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Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 688
Location: In The Fog Of The Bong
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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They are trying to get the smoking ban down here in Pittsburgh,people are bitching about it.
I'm a smoker and if the ban goes through, that's ok with me.
West Virginia is smokeless and we play at a place down there called Yesterdays,everybody just goes outside and no one complains.
Plus on the bright side,say you wanna fix your head. You're already going out to do that. So what's the harm?
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Jim Price
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Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 4817
Location: Altoona, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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A few years ago, I witnessed a good friend of mine have to be helped out of new Sebastiano's (now 30 Something) one night because she had an asthma attack triggered by heavy cigarette smoke inside. This was back in the Korruption days, and the house was packed, so there was a lot of cigarette smoke within a closed space. So I think it's reasonable for smoking to be banned inside public venues, especially closed environments where people can't escape it.
The side benefit of it, for bands, is that you may find a whole new fan base with nonsmokers and smoke-sensitive folks who might not have been able to come see you perform before. I know folks who presently don't go out to see bands because they are asthmatic and can't handle cigarette smoke inside bars. They have to wait for outdoor shows during summer or non-smoking events to see live music.
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karakise
Active Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Crack haven
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| I would have to agree with the ban. I am a smoker and have to say that going into a bar with a lot of people smoking sucks. A lot of people think that you feel like shit the next day because you drank to much and sometimes that may be the case. I have been a dd many times for people and must say I feel just as bad the next day as if I have gotten loaded the night before. I would have really bad headaches and the shakes and all from smoke. I refuse to smoke around a non smoker. It is thier right to be smart enough to not subject themselves to the health risks that are imposed on people by smoking and so who are we to throw those risks in thier faces by making them breathe our second hand smoke. I have been to non smoking bars before and it really is not that bad. It's nice to be able to see the other side of the bar without this haze floating through the air. I am all for the ban and say the hell with all the selfish people that cannot understand why the non smokers have a right to go to a public place and breathe clean air. It's your selfishness that helps to make the world what it is today....Shity. |
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rreihart
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Loretto, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| lonewolf wrote: |
Deep fried food and soda pop will be next. |
No, not really. So long as the consumption of said products affects only you. The point is, smoking affects EVERYONE around you.
Oh and just to weigh in. I have been and always will be a huge proponent of a smoking ban. Before, I would have argued that I would have gone out more if bars were less smoky. Now, I doubt that would be the case, because bars aren't really my thing, anymore. However, it still ticks me off when I go to restaurants that have a smoking section and I have to be seated within smelling distance of it. The ban would also eliminate those areas.
Last edited by rreihart on Sunday Jan 06, 2008; edited 1 time in total |
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MeYatch
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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I oppose the ban for selfish reasons as well as on principle. I don't think its the government's place to say that a legal substance cannot be used in a privately owned establishment.
However I have pretty much accepted it as an eventuality, and started to think of the good things about it. I really shouldn't smoke as much as I do when I'm playing, and it won't kill me to smoke outside. Actually I don't even smoke in my own place, because I don't want it to stink.
Does anyone know what kind of exceptions are made for places like cigar/hookah lounges?
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moxham123
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 5816
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Here is the current list of smoke-free states and the ones coming up soon. Pennsylvania has the law being amended in legistation right now and is scheduled to be voted on during the next session of the state house and senate. All the states surrounding Pennsylvania are now smoke-free, which indicates Pennsylvania won't be far behind.
Arizona (effective May 1, 2007)
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Illinois (effective January 1, 2008)
Maine
Maryland (effective February 1, 2008)
Massachusetts
Minnesota (effective October 1, 2007)
Montana (bars effective January 1, 2009)
New Hampshire (effective September 17, 2007)
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Ohio
Oregon (effective January 1, 2009)
Rhode Island
Utah (bars effective January 1, 2009)
Vermont
Washington
Plus,
Washington DC
Puerto Rico |
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rreihart
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 964
Location: Loretto, PA
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| MeYatch wrote: | | I oppose the ban for selfish reasons as well as on principle. I don't think its the government's place to say that a legal substance cannot be used in a privately owned establishment. |
Well, you drive a car that is privately owned, right? You still have to abide by laws and regulations set forth by the government, like speed and proper maintenance (inspection), right? Why are those laws in place? To protect OTHER people. It's the same thing. |
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bassist_25
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| songsmith wrote: | Word.
Notice how the only people saying NO to a smoking ban are (cough-cough) smokers. The only people who can find any way at all to justify it are those trying to justify their own habit. And using Hitler of all people as a reference? |
I'm a nonsmoker, and I honestly can't fathom how anyone tied to the local music scene could think that a smoking ban is a good idea. Clubs in New York did see a loss in attendance. A smoking ban may have a positive effect in a place like LA, where the climate is conducive to going out on the patio for a smoke during November. I don't see that happening in Pennsylvania with 10 degree weather. The Zeno's thing sounds really cool, but you really can't generalize from a place like State College with its large and cosmopolitian demographic to a place like Altoona or Ebensburg. It's something we psychie people call external validity.
My esteemed collegue, Lonewolf, pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, this is an issue of the government fucking with free-market enterprise. If there's a market for a smoke-free club, let the club owner take a risk, open a smoke-free place, and if it's successful, reap the rewards. People will say anecdotes here of how they know a bunch of people who don't come out to the clubs because of the smoke. This is another thing we psychie people talk about called an availability heuristic. It may not always be reflective of reality. If there truly is a large market of nonsmokers who would patronize bars more if they were smoke-free, then the empirical results will show that. The problem is, though, that it's not the government's place to be conducting experiments without doing a thorough lit review before they state their hypotheses. 
Man, I should go into politics. LOL
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Last edited by bassist_25 on Sunday Jan 06, 2008; edited 1 time in total |
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bassist_25
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Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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| MeYatch wrote: |
Does anyone know what kind of exceptions are made for places like cigar/hookah lounges? |
I heard a speech on this a few months ago. I believe that it was stated that places whose business is based around tobacco, such as cigar bars, will not be affected by the legislation. That's cool, because I'm a major fan of the hookah. Speaking of which, I need to hit up the lounge in State College.
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HurricaneBob
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Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 2790
Location: /root/2/pub
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Im a smoker, but have been wanting to quit, plus i smoke when i play.
So the ban will be good for me if anything. |
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bassist_25
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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P.s. Have you ever thought of just how many carcigens you're putting in your body everyday? Why isn't anyone out their marching against the emissions put out by diesel trucks? I should go out and pickett in front of the Shawville power plant, because they're blowing pollution into the air. Does everyone here make sure that they are buying fresh fruit and veggies that are guaranteed not to have fertilizers and pesticides put on them?
With all due respect, I can't get over how some of you are freaking out over a little bit of smoke when you play. As I said, I'm a nonsmoker, and for the most part, it doesn't bother me. There are only two instances that I can't stand it: 1) Having it blown directly in my face, 2) Being in a car or very closed area with someone smoking. I honestly don't notice it when I'm on stage. I don't really notice it when I walk off of stage. My singer and drummer are smokers. They don't smoke when they are on stage performing. I usually say "nonsmoking" when I go to a restuarant, but if I have sit in the smoking section, it's not a big deal. Honestly, with all of the other bullshit we have to put up with when it comes to playing music, from shifty promoters to the van breaking down on the way to a gig, some cigarette smoke should be the least of our worries.
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Colton
Diamond Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 1977
Location: Almost level with the ground.
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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When the ban goes thru, bring your illegal cigarettes to my house and we'll have a party!
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bassist_25
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Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2008 |
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Joe will definitely be opening his speak-easy then.
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