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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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First off thank you very much for taking the time to read.

So i am 31 years old and here recently have been composing a couple of Original songs ,i play mostly alternative rock and been trying to do some prog as well because i don't want to be just "another" Guitar player,at my age i know i am not going to get famous etc etc etc but i do like the feeling that comes with a good Composition.

This being said i never played LIVE i always have my guitar plugged in VIA recording interface and record directly to my Digital workstation.

My questions are very simple but tricky because everyone has personal preference in these matters but i'm trying to figure out a good RIG to play Live...in bars,and medium sized places!

1-A decent sized Tube amplifier
2-Effects [Brands & models]
3-Noise reduction/EQ/Compression

If you could help me pick or show me some alternatives i would greatly appreciate.

Have a Great Day

Pedro
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The Shadow
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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This is going to be hilarious.
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Hilarious?

I thought this section was "tech"

I have a question about it and i posted,whats so funny about it?
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kayla
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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I'm playing mostly alternative rock and here's what i use.

I use one of two amps with the same pedal board set up.

First amp is a Fender Evil Twin with a 25 Watt/100 Watt Switch all tube amp.

Second Amp is a Mesa Boogie Nomad 55 Watt Tube into a Marshall 4x10 cab

Pedal board is simple; Wah Pedal, Tube Screamer, Overdrive Pedal, Marshall Echohead.

Some advice on playing live (imo), don't use less than a 15 Watt Tube amp unless you have it miked.

thats all i got for now. Cool

- kayla.
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Thank you very much Kayla.

I am now goggling those Items you mentioned and that is already a big Help.

A friend of mine gave me:



Would this work until i actually get geared properly?

I have these Connected to a small Mixing table and to my Bose Speakers.

I'm very new To all this so i appreciate any output
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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What i been thinking about buying is basicly:



and



For alternative rock,Progressive Metal/rock and Whatever comes from my Jams !


Feedback appreciated

~Pedro
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The Shadow
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Pedro Mota wrote:
Hilarious?

I thought this section was "tech"

I have a question about it and i posted,whats so funny about it?


Just wait. You're going to get every sort of answer imaginable from morons that don't know what they're talking about. They'll tell you to buy the same junk that they're using and you'll get the same shitty results as they do and in the end you'll probably kick your dog, beat your girlfriend, and rub shit in your hair.

There are only about 5 or 6 people on this site that could give you valid advice. Hopefully one of them will chime in and you'll have the sense to listen to them.
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kayla
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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The Shadow wrote:

There are only about 5 or 6 people on this site that could give you valid advice. Hopefully one of them will chime in and you'll have the sense to listen to them.


ya... i don't know what i'm talking about either. Rolling Eyes
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Well i see your point.

However those 5-6 are gonna be a good influence...

At the end of the day their morons everywhere lol =)
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VENTGtr
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Wow.


Cool that you're looking at the Blackstar. I have a couple and really like them. What I did find, and on their Forum, a lot of other's seem to concur, the tubes they ship with aren't the greatest, either for longevity, or tone (A subjective thing. Some were fine with them, tonally). A tube swap made a huge difference in both of mine (I have the "head" versions of the HT5 and HT20. Use Warehouse Vet30 and Green Beret speakers. Celestion-y without the "spike" that I hear in actual Celestions).

I tried a few different tubes, but ended up going with JJs (Which I always seem to do). The only thing with the HT5 is that they use a BH7 as a power tube, which are more limited as far as makers (I actually forget what kind I got for that). Something else that was very cool is that they (B*s) respond well to different tube types. Meaning, if you put a Mullard in there, you can hear a difference as opposed to a JJ (I think some amps just sound the same with whatever's in them).

PERSONALLY, I like lower wattage amps, nowadays. Mainly…because of my hearing...which I'm trying to keep the remainder of (Constant ringing in the left ear for a few years now. Not so fun). Plus, simply better for stage volume most places, and you mic them any way. 5Ws in a tube amp can still get pretty loud (Though, I can agree with Kayla, have a few extra watts is nice, just in case). PLUS, the emulated out on the B*s is really good (Similar to an HK Redbox).

There are a lot of nicer, smaller amp around now. Blackstar (The HTs and there's a 15w Artisan that I've been pondering), Vox, Orange, the smaller Mesa rec, Carvin, HK, etc., plus most boutique builders have them as well.

Effects-wise, depends on what ya prefer. I LOVE the idea of a single processor, but use pedals instead (Though I also have a Line6 M13, and a L6 PodXT, but those are for a second line for "keyboard-y/synth-type stuff".

As much as amps, effects can keep you looking for new ones that ya like forever.

My current board has:

TC Electronic Polytune
Morley Little Alligator Volume
Cryaby
Fulltone Fatboost 3
Joyo Compressor (A friend, who's extremely picky, told me about these. Pretty cheap and work great).

Through the Loop:
GFS Chorus (These just came out so I got one to check out. Haven't gotten to try it yet)
Boss PH3 Phase Shifter
Boss PS5 Pitch Shifter
Boss Flanger
Line 6 Verbzilla
Boss DD6 Delay
BBE SonicStomp

Plus, the aforementioned L6 M13 that runs from a separate line from my board (SKB55, thanks very much to Rob). That thing can do anything.

There are some I may prefer over them, but Boss' stuff is just sturdy and reliable. I may be picking up an analog delay at some point soon (No idea why…Just…tend to get things…). Probably an MXR Carbon Copy or TC Electronics Flashback (Forget if they're analog, though, actually), or possibly some "boutique"-esque, just to give a try.

My only issue/concern with all in-one-boards is, if something goes, you may very well be hosed, live. Still, they, generally, seem to be reliable. I'm sure there are a lot of guys on here who use them and can give good info.

REALLY, there are so many good options with effects that it's just personal preference (As with amps, gits, etc.). Trying them all out, though…is just fun...
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Thanks for your exhaustive reply VENTGtr

I'm going to read it carefully as i found a lot of the information i was looking for on your Post!


Thank you

~Pedro
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VENTGtr
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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Pedro Mota wrote:
Thanks for your exhaustive reply VENTGtr

I'm going to read it carefully as i found a lot of the information i was looking for on your Post!


Thank you

~Pedro


Laughing


Ya....I tend to do that... It's a fault... I've come to accept it.

Oh...and hard as it may be to believe I FORGOT to mention something, look into the TC Electronics effects that have the TonePrints. You can check out "prints" and download them into the pedal. For example, say ya like a delay The Edge uses on something. Rather than muck around to get it, can get exactly the settings to get the effect he was using. Pretty cool.

Also, dig around on here for Barry Bardel. Local effect maker. He can probably create whatever ya need based on what you describe.

Kayla, Philippi and other's on here use his stuff and can tell ya more about it. Not sure if he actually frequents here any more or not.
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Last edited by VENTGtr on Wednesday Jul 02, 2014; edited 1 time in total
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kayla
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 Post Posted: Wednesday Jul 02, 2014 
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VENTGtr wrote:

Kayla, Philippi and other's on here use his stuff and can tell ya more about it. Not sure if he actually frequents here any more or not.


ya, my pedal board consists of two pedals Barry built for me and then the Marshall Echohead. I'm pretty sure he's just doin the pcb boards right now.
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StumbleFingers
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 Post Posted: Saturday Jul 05, 2014 
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Some random advice:

- Do you have a favorite amp simulation in your recording software? Use that as a shopping guide. If you always use the one that looks like a Marshall (for example), go buy a Marshall.

- Don't buy too big of an amp. A lot of the places you'll play around here have issues with noise violations. Don't be "that guy" with a wall of 100w amps. There's usually no room for that anyway.

- Fortunately there are a ton of small, affordable, great sounding tube amps. A few to consider: Orange Tiny Terror/Dark Terror, Vox Night Train, Marshall DSL15/40, Fender Deluxe Reverb (esp. for blues or country), Mesa Mini Rectifier (pricier).

- Seriously consider a Line 6 M5 or M9 with an expression pedal. Use that to experiment with which effects you like/want/need. Those are great because there's no fancy programming - it's just like using a stomp box.
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Saturday Jul 05, 2014 
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Thanks StumbleFingers.

I will look into those for sure...

@great idea to check my amp simulator for references lol i did not think about it!
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Chuxema
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 Post Posted: Sunday Jul 06, 2014 
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I run an Ampeg VH-140C 2×12 combo paired with an old
Fender FM-412 cabinet. Run the dirty channel stacked
with a Left Hand Wrath distortion pedal from Lone Wolf
Audio. Its a metal monster. Honestly it is all in preference.
Most people I talk to prefer tube amps. I'd take another one
of these solid state bastards over a tube amp any day.

If I were you I'd check out different amps in stores that'll let
you try em out. You can also check out videos on YouTube
to get a rough idea. Good luck!
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Sunday Jul 06, 2014 
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Thanks Chuxema That's Good Advice!
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Jasaoke
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 Post Posted: Sunday Jul 06, 2014 
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I kinda think amps are for suckers.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY love analog technology and sounds. But digital technology has won the war. A modestly priced unit will give a far greater range of "tone", effects, AND 'channel strip' processing than you could ever get otherwise, and you can carry it all with one hand!! In the right set of hands (& ears) they sound as good as any "real" rig, if not better. They are typically not for beginners, but if you've done direct recording it shouldn't be a big deal.

I'm a huge fan of Line 6; they wrote the book on amp modeling.

I understand that it's hard to give up the notion of an amp and speakers. There is something very cool about pushing all that air. Keep in mind that even a 2 x 12 is way bigger than you will ever need.[/u]
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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Jasaoke wrote:
I kinda think amps are for suckers.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY love analog technology and sounds. But digital technology has won the war. A modestly priced unit will give a far greater range of "tone", effects, AND 'channel strip' processing than you could ever get otherwise, and you can carry it all with one hand!! In the right set of hands (& ears) they sound as good as any "real" rig, if not better. They are typically not for beginners, but if you've done direct recording it shouldn't be a big deal.

I'm a huge fan of Line 6; they wrote the book on amp modeling.

I understand that it's hard to give up the notion of an amp and speakers. There is something very cool about pushing all that air. Keep in mind that even a 2 x 12 is way bigger than you will ever need.[/u]



Practical examples please

What would be your combo sugestion?
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bassist_25
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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Pedro Mota wrote:

[b]1-A decent sized Tube amplifier



This is honestly something that nobody here can answer, because it's a question that could have a bazillion "correct" answers, from 18 watt, boutique point-to-point combos to high watt mass produced monsters. Your imagination and wallet are the only limitations. Do you like high-gain American sounds? Low-gain British tone? 6L5s? EL34s?


Quote:

2-Effects [Brands & models]


If we're talking about multi-FX units, I think when it comes to quality, there are really two brands that stand out: TC Electronics and Fractal Audio. I'm not a big fan of their stuff for modeling, but when it comes to FX, Line 6 makes some nice stuff too. If you go multi, don't waste time and money with cheap entry level Digitech units.

If we're talking stompboxes, we could be here for a while. lol

Quote:

3-Noise reduction/EQ/Compression



For a noise gate, I like Rocktron Hush units and ISP Decimators. For EQ, I'd just stick with a stomp box unit for boosting clean solos and stuff like that. No need for a 31-band rack mount or anything. For compression, I'd suggest an Electro-Harmonix unit, but there are a ton of really nice compressors out there. But if you go with a multi-unit, there's not need for a separate compressor, since there will already be one in the unit that you can program.
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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Thanks guys for all the replies.

It is a very hard choice to make when confronted with so many optio
ns.
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VENTGtr
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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For a simple, versatile, albeit analog, amp modeler, take a look at the Tech21 GT2 (Or their Trademark amps. The Trademark 60 is a nice combo amp). Really good, nice, simple, and are a staple as far as session players. The have different models (Mesa, Marshall and Fender), different output type, mic placement sims, etc.). I still have one on my pedalboard as a "just in case it all goes to hell" backup.

As far as that kind of thing goes, the Ibanez TubeKings, Mesa VTwin, Blackstar HT, ToneBone or whatever the H&K is, are all really good floor tube preamps. i have a TubeKing and love the sound of it.

For the floor preamps, you can either go a nice, clean, SS route, or a tube amp where you get the clean sound perfect and build around that. Can also experiment with going through the front of the amp, or the FX Loop to see what ya like better.

With regards to Rob (Jasaoke)'s suggestion, the Line 6 Floor systems, paired with one of their powered monitors to hear yourself, are a good option.

Things to keep in mind: Generally, if you're using something like that (The L6), you're less apt to want something like a tube amp (Provided you're using the amps models in the L6). What you'll probably want is something clean and neutral. It's, essentially, a speaker system and the L6's, etc., are built to simulate various cabs. Anything else (Pre/Power tubes, a specific speaker) can color that. MAY be exactly what ya want, but different than their primary purpose.

These also have gates, etc. built in, not that there's a lot of extraneous hiss/noise from them, any way. And, as long as they last, there's not really any extra upkeep (Replacing tubes, biasing, etc.).

With that type of thing, you'll be a sound guy's dream, plus, like he said, less to haul and a nice, quick setup and tear down.
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Pedro Mota
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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Very good Point!
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VENTGtr
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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Ya. Ya think I'd have been smart enough to follow that advice year's ago...but I still like "tubes"....and a bunch of effects pedals scattered in front of me...

A pretty good demo of a setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg661-nQexI
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StumbleFingers
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 Post Posted: Monday Jul 07, 2014 
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An amp modeler is a great option. Especially if you're starting out and aren't set in your ways like us old farts who just have to have our tubes! Twisted Evil

Another bit of advice: Go simple. You don't need a bunch of gear to sound good, and there's a real danger of screwing up a good sound by adding too many effects. Start with a guitar plugged straight into the amp (or amp model) and don't add anything else unless you have a specific reason to.

And if you go with stomp boxes, invest in a spatula.
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