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BDR
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 4086
Location: Shelocta, PA
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 Posted: Friday Jun 13, 2008 |
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I think there will definitely be an enforcement issue, first and foremost. I can't imagine that some of the "out of the way" places that we play won't balk at the law to appease the smoking customer base.
Of course, there's the non-smoking customer base. It's a two-sided issue that, IMO, should be left up to the business owner.
This is total crap and not because I smoke. I'd prefer to not smoke, but for now, I do. It all boils down to telling a business owner what to do in his or her own establishment. If someone wants to cater to people in a smoking environment, it should be his or her choice. Point is, bars could impose a "no smoking" policy before a law was passed. How many barowners did it?
None that I've seen. Hmmm ...
r:>)
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Ron
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 2031
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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| BadDazeRob wrote: | I think there will definitely be an enforcement issue, first and foremost. I can't imagine that some of the "out of the way" places that we play won't balk at the law to appease the smoking customer base.
Of course, there's the non-smoking customer base. It's a two-sided issue that, IMO, should be left up to the business owner.
This is total crap and not because I smoke. I'd prefer to not smoke, but for now, I do. It all boils down to telling a business owner what to do in his or her own establishment. If someone wants to cater to people in a smoking environment, it should be his or her choice. Point is, bars could impose a "no smoking" policy before a law was passed. How many barowners did it?
None that I've seen. Hmmm ...
r:>) |
In State College, Xeno's, Otto's, the Autoport and The Ale House all went non-smoking before the ban.
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BDR
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 4086
Location: Shelocta, PA
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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I'm sure some have, but by and large, I'd say most haven't.
(BTW, Ron, you running sound Thursday? hehehe ...)
r:>)
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Ron
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 2031
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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Not this time. 
BTW... the law does allow restaurant/bars to section off the bar area, but the heating and AC have to be separate from the restaurant area.
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songsmith
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6108
Location: The Wood of Bells
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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| VENTGtr wrote: | It'd be interesting to see how the numbers for "private" clubs have moved
lately. I've spoken to a number of people who are joining them just because
they have lower beer prices. |
Excellent question. I'd like to see whether private clubs have grown, as well. They've been staying fairly steady in my estimation, while commercial establishments have seen crowds dwindle, I think. The people who join the VFW seem to be there for the cheap booze and an implied promise that they'll know most people there... plus, members have a little say in what goes on in the club, whereas a bar owner always has the last word.
It may be simply because I've been playing music that agrees with those folks, but it sure seems like they're doing better than one would think.
I support a smoking ban. People aren't going to "choose" not to smoke when they sit next to me. It's one of the few nasty things people do that they don't care if you like it or not. Even the nicest guy will spark up next to you, and if it blows in your face, tough shyte, Holmes. I'm smoking, it's my "right." Well, it's MY right to shit in your ashtray. Pooping is not illegal. Everybody poops, according to a book I once read. Don't like it, or don't like me? Tough shyte, Holmes.
Smoking vs. Not smoking will always be the simplest effing argument ever. One side is addicted to nicotine, and will choose their addiction over everything else, no matter who it bothers. The other side isn't.  It's not about personal freedoms or rights. It's about a lack of power over a cigarette. Show me your power. --->JMS |
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JackANSI
Diamond Member
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Workin' in a Soylent factory, Waitin' for the Malthusian catastrophe.
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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| songsmith wrote: | | Smoking vs. Not smoking will always be the simplest effing argument ever. One side is addicted to nicotine, and will choose their addiction over everything else, no matter who it bothers. The other side isn't. It's not about personal freedoms or rights. It's about a lack of power over a cigarette. Show me your power. --->JMS |
I've tried that route with smokers I know.. They normally sulk away and light up another cigarette because you just made them depressed.
I've kept it private but you've inspired me, I can't freaking wait 90 days. Honestly if smokers had a more curtious attitude maybe this law wouldn't have been needed.
A bar owner never seems looks around at the ceiling or walls and sees the nasty thick yellow gunk sticking to everything that really makes me as a customer think "this is a f'in dive, I'm not staying here long."
Maybe the fact that it won't get gunked up will make these people invest a little more time and money in their places since it won't get ruined with cigarette smoke. I swear there are places in Altoona that have not seen fresh paint since the place was either built, rebuilt (cause it burned down), or changed ownership and got remodeled because the new owner has a clue. If you're not putting any money back into your business, bar or not, you're never going to do as well as someone who is ahead of the game. |
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Lisa
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 638
Location: Houtzdale
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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This information helps alot...
http://www.cleanair.org/IndoorAir/tobacco/pdfs/Compare%20Bans%20Chart.pdf
I'm still seeking as much information as possible. I do not trust the news on what can be done and what can't be done. Especially when they are interviewing other bar owners who are just trying to interpret the law as they want to read it. |
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JackANSI
Diamond Member
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Workin' in a Soylent factory, Waitin' for the Malthusian catastrophe.
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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| So why are people fighting this smoking ban and trying so hard to skirt the law? |
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MeYatch
Diamond Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 1586
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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| JackANSI wrote: | | So why are people fighting this smoking ban and trying so hard to skirt the law? |
because they can.
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bassist_25
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6815
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Monday Jun 16, 2008 |
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Again, my issue isn't with smoke or no smoke. I'm actually a non-smoker. I think smoking is a horrible habit, and I'm thankful every day that I am not addicted. My issue is that I hate to see something that's going to put another nail in the coffin of live music.
People swim in public pools. People listen to music when they're at the gym. And people smoke when they are at bars.
Many clubs have no smoking policies when on the dancefloor. I honestly don't understand how smoke is bothering you when you're on stage. The fog machine is more harsh on my nasal cavities than someone smoking 60 feet away from the stage. *shrugs*
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Killjingle
Diamond Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 1714
Location: Elton
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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I lost my battle with nicotine. It wins at least 20 times a day. I have never smoked in a house or car where I didnt ask if it was "OK". I suppose its just how it is. But dont put me down because of a bad habit.
I bet if we look, there are some fucking ugly skeletons in the closet of many a RP'er.
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CrossfireRadio
Gold Member
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: PA
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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| JackANSI wrote: |
A bar owner never seems looks around at the ceiling or walls and sees the nasty thick yellow gunk sticking to everything that really makes me as a customer think "this is a f'in dive, I'm not staying here long."
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There are a few bar owners that I know that keep their place clean as possible, specially ones that serve food... But how many people go into a bar or restaurant just to look at the ceiling and walls?
I would "assume" most go to see what type of atmosphere that bar or restaurant has, rather than the type of paint or how much smoke is stuck to the ceiling...
Sure theres alot of people out there that don't like smoke, and are happy about the smoking ban.... But "some" of those people that don't smoke "chew" instead, and thats more of a disgusting habit than smoking is, in my opinion. Maybe they should make a No Chewing law too... seeings that some of those chewers don't care and spit on the floor or take out their chew and put it in or even on the urinals in the mens bathroom, instead of properly disposing it by putting it in the garbage instead.
(course if you look at the other post, Peeing in the shower, theres quite a few more disgusting things there, than smoking or chewing.. haha)
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Ron
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 2031
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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Second hand chew? Ugh.
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songsmith
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 6108
Location: The Wood of Bells
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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| Killjingle wrote: | I lost my battle with nicotine. It wins at least 20 times a day. I have never smoked in a house or car where I didnt ask if it was "OK". I suppose its just how it is. But dont put me down because of a bad habit.
I bet if we look, there are some fucking ugly skeletons in the closet of many a RP'er. |
Look, being a smoker doesn't make you a bad person. Being a smoker who doesn't care how it affects other people does. Even those folks aren't evil or anything, they're just dicks, they just have a monkey on their backs, and are trying to rationalize it. You just can't. There's no advantage to smoking, except maybe that it keeps the mosquito's away. It always starts with an attempt to be cool (c'mon be honest, people), and next thing you know, something that was genetically engineered to addict you... well, it addicts you.
I was the exception to the rule... I smoked for a few years, and for whatever reason, I never felt those pangs for a smoke when I quit. Maybe I didn't smoke enough (I smoked a pack on the weekend, seldom during the week), but I found it fairly easy to give up. Obviously, I can't speak to how hard it is for you personally to quit. I have watched enough people quit to know that you go through hell for 2 weeks, then it backs off. You have about 2 weeks of withdrawal symptoms and cravings, then, it's all in your head, and you control it. It's not like some drugs or alcohol where you crave it the rest of your life, it's a couple of weeks, and the sense of accomplishment alone is worth quitting. The price of smokes would be enough to make me quit. My mom and stepdad were both 2-pack-a-day smokers, gave up, and bought a rockin' bass boat! They made the payments with their smoke money.
In short, the attitude that one's decision to smoke trumps others' decision not to, speaks volumes about the smoker. --->JMS |
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JackANSI
Diamond Member
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Workin' in a Soylent factory, Waitin' for the Malthusian catastrophe.
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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| CrossfireRadio wrote: | | JackANSI wrote: |
A bar owner never seems looks around at the ceiling or walls and sees the nasty thick yellow gunk sticking to everything that really makes me as a customer think "this is a f'in dive, I'm not staying here long."
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There are a few bar owners that I know that keep their place clean as possible, specially ones that serve food... But how many people go into a bar or restaurant just to look at the ceiling and walls?
I would "assume" most go to see what type of atmosphere that bar or restaurant has, rather than the type of paint or how much smoke is stuck to the ceiling... |
I use that as a direct guage on the "draft or bottle" choice. Also use it to guage if the owner cares about their place or not. Might not effect your decisions, but it definitely does mine.
After the initial assessment i don't stare at the walls unless I have some reason to, like cool objects or pictures from the past.
I guess some people just have standards, others not so much.
I tried smoking once... Got the worst headache of my life. Kinda stuck with me that smoking was bad if it causes that. |
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JackANSI
Diamond Member
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Workin' in a Soylent factory, Waitin' for the Malthusian catastrophe.
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| Posted: Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 |
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| songsmith wrote: | The price of smokes would be enough to make me quit. My mom and stepdad were both 2-pack-a-day smokers, gave up, and bought a rockin' bass boat! They made the payments with their smoke money.
In short, the attitude that one's decision to smoke trumps others' decision not to, speaks volumes about the smoker. --->JMS |
Wow 2-pack-a-day... I can't even imagine...
For the price of 1-pack-a-day ($5*365=$1825) you can do so much. If you can't think of anything you'd like to do with an extra 1825 a year... Thats my entire electric and NG bill for a year! Thats two nice weekend trips to a nearby beach, or one nice week in florida. Thats payments on a decent bike and probably enough to pay for its gas for the season.
I'm just confused why someone would just set fire to $1825/yr... |
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Killjingle
Diamond Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 1714
Location: Elton
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| Posted: Thursday Jun 26, 2008 |
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its a lot higher than 1825 actually
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bsaller
Gold Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Friday Jun 27, 2008 |
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| Ron wrote: | | Second hand chew? Ugh. |
Hey Ron!, it's not that bad! Just let it dry and put it in your pipe.  |
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Killjingle
Diamond Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 1714
Location: Elton
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| Posted: Tuesday Jul 15, 2008 |
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| man I thought nicotine was rough. try quitting Mountain Dew... |
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JackANSI
Diamond Member
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Workin' in a Soylent factory, Waitin' for the Malthusian catastrophe.
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| Posted: Monday Jul 28, 2008 |
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I'd have to say after this weekend, I don't care about this one at all...
I'm more concerned about even having places to book shows... |
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