I thought you voted for change.

[songsmith]

Newt admitted it and didn't lie ..

Ohhhh! Well, that makes it better.

Same? Same.-------->JMS

[songsmith]

More critically... Was there something Bush wasn't telling everyone and Obama didn't get to know until he was elected president, which caused him to change course?

So, even though he ran as Change Incarnate, Barry Hussein is going to keep the same foreign policy as Bush and you are going to blame Bush. You liberals have taken the blame game to a new level.

My, it sounds like a nerve was touched, there. Possibly there was a mega-f**kup we don't even know about. Maybe that's why there was talk of charges for members of the Bush White House?
You Hannitized Dittoheads have taken both short- and long-term memory loss to a new level. Don't fear, though. I won't let you forget. --->JMS

[Banned]

Newt did not go on TV in front of the whole American people and tell an outright lie! That is different.

BTW, I am in no way in support of Newt for any federal office. Well, unless he sees the light and becomes a Libertarian or Constitutionalist, but he is way too much a statist for that to happen.

[RobTheDrummer]

More critically... Was there something Bush wasn't telling everyone and Obama didn't get to know until he was elected president, which caused him to change course?

So, even though he ran as Change Incarnate, Barry Hussein is going to keep the same foreign policy as Bush and you are going to blame Bush. You liberals have taken the blame game to a new level.

My, it sounds like a nerve was touched, there. Possibly there was a mega-f**kup we don't even know about. Maybe that's why there was talk of charges for members of the Bush White House?
You Hannitized Dittoheads have taken both short- and long-term memory loss to a new level. Don't fear, though. I won't let you forget. --->JMS

Personally, when Barack ran, I don't think he had a fucking clue! But the people ate it up. Now he's in there, and he probably had a rude awakening to the goings on that he really had no clue about.

[Banned]

More critically... Was there something Bush wasn't telling everyone and Obama didn't get to know until he was elected president, which caused him to change course?

So, even though he ran as Change Incarnate, Barry Hussein is going to keep the same foreign policy as Bush and you are going to blame Bush. You liberals have taken the blame game to a new level.

My, it sounds like a nerve was touched, there. Possibly there was a mega-f**kup we don't even know about. Maybe that's why there was talk of charges for members of the Bush White House?
You Hannitized Dittoheads have taken both short- and long-term memory loss to a new level. Don't fear, though. I won't let you forget. --->JMS

Johnny, some day you may let it sink in that I am now a Libertarian. Please go to their web site and read what we are about. Then you can finally stop the only defense you ever give, that we are all Hannity Ditto heads. I voted for Ron Paul, and both Hannity and Rush called him the Wacko from Waco, so it might occur to you I don't give two rat turds what Rush says.

People other than Dittohead neocons do and will continue to criticize the Fascist president you sheeple have dangerously put into the White House. Put on another thinking cap and try to think of new and more appropriate comebacks. Calling Libertarians and Constitutionalists Ditto heads is quite funny. But way off the mark.


BTW, I will keep reminding you that you voted for a Republocrat or Demican if you prefer. They are the 2 sides of the same coin. You were not going to get any change with Dem or a Republican, and now its becoming evident.

[f.sciarrillo]

Newt admitted it and didn't lie ..

Ohhhh! Well, that makes it better.

Same? Same.-------->JMS

It isn't the same because he didn't look in the face of the American people, and congress, and lie about it. Of course, if he would have lied; then I would be giving him the same disrespectful story as Clinton.

[slackin@dabass]

what it all boils down to is obama said "i'm withdrawing the troops"


then got into office...

"hey, i'm making them stay longer!!"




and now the dems are all "panties in a twist" because why?


oh yea, republicans and democrats want the same thing. and it has nothing to do with the general population of this country!

[songsmith]

Newt admitted it and didn't lie ..

Ohhhh! Well, that makes it better.

Same? Same.-------->JMS

It isn't the same because he didn't look in the face of the American people, and congress, and lie about it. Of course, if he would have lied; then I would be giving him the same disrespectful story as Clinton.

Newt Gingrich led the charge against Clinton for his moral terpitude and lack of "values." WHILE he was having an affair himself.
Same? Yep, still same.-------->JMS

[f.sciarrillo]

Ohhhh! Well, that makes it better.

Same? Same.-------->JMS

It isn't the same because he didn't look in the face of the American people, and congress, and lie about it. Of course, if he would have lied; then I would be giving him the same disrespectful story as Clinton.

Newt Gingrich led the charge against Clinton for his moral terpitude and lack of "values." WHILE he was having an affair himself.
Same? Yep, still same.-------->JMS

It doesn't matter who led the charges. What matters is that one lied and the other didn't ...

[lonewolf]

"So, you want your change back? Here, keep your change."

[songsmith]

It isn't the same because he didn't look in the face of the American people, and congress, and lie about it. Of course, if he would have lied; then I would be giving him the same disrespectful story as Clinton.

Newt Gingrich led the charge against Clinton for his moral terpitude and lack of "values." WHILE he was having an affair himself.
Same? Yep, still same.-------->JMS

It doesn't matter who led the charges. What matters is that one lied and the other didn't ...

If you think he was having an affair, and never lied about it to anyone, or covered it up... I don't think you understand how affairs work. To prosecute someone else for what you're currently doing? I don't think you understand how hypocrisy works, either.
I don't remember an apology, either, but the farther you are out on the wings, the less you feel the need to apologize for your actions.
Rationalize all you want. The truth has been known for years.--->JMS

[lonewolf]

Some facts on something that is completely off topic in this thread:

1. Clinton's charges were perjury and obstruction of justice.

2. Perjury was related to the affair, but the obstruction charge was a little more insidious. You know, witness tampering and other cool mob stuff like that.

3. Clinton finished his term.

4. Gingrich announced his resignation from the House and resigned as Speaker before the impeachment proceeding.

[songsmith]

5.Kenneth Starr's successor as Independent Counsel, Robert Ray, released a report in September 2000 that stated "This office determined that the evidence was insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that either President or Mrs. Clinton knowingly participated in any criminal conduct."

6.Clinton was impeached on December 19, 1998, by the House of Representatives on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228-206 vote, party lines) and obstruction of justice (by a 221-212 vote, also largely along party lines). Two other articles of impeachment failed — a second count of perjury in the Jones case (by a 205-229 vote) and one accusing Clinton of abuse of power (by a 148-285 vote). Such a vote does not require a preponderance of evidence, and indeed, the Ray Report concluded as such.

7.The Speaker-designate Representative Bob Livingston, chosen by the Republican Party Conference to replace outgoing Speaker Newt Gingrich, announced the end of his candidacy for Speaker and his resignation from Congress from the floor of the house after Livingston's own marital infidelity came to light.

8.Contemporaneously, some media reported on house manager Henry Hyde's marital infidelity of several decades prior.

9. The GOP Congress also passed the Independent Counsel Reauthorization Act of 1994, when the original "independent counsel" was set to expire, without enough evidence for a conviction on original charges. Evidence was never found.

10. I could find no research on any mob connection.

In short, the witch hunt ended with Congress nailing Bubba for nailing Monica, and little else. It marked the zenith for Rovian politics. I wonder what we'd find if there was an "independent counsel" investigation into the Iraq War, or ironically, Blackwater, or Halliburton?--->JMS

[slackin@dabass]

5.Kenneth Starr's successor as Independent Counsel, Robert Ray, released a report in September 2000 that stated "This office determined that the evidence was insufficient to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that either President or Mrs. Clinton knowingly participated in any criminal conduct."

6.Clinton was impeached on December 19, 1998, by the House of Representatives on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228-206 vote, party lines) and obstruction of justice (by a 221-212 vote, also largely along party lines). Two other articles of impeachment failed — a second count of perjury in the Jones case (by a 205-229 vote) and one accusing Clinton of abuse of power (by a 148-285 vote). Such a vote does not require a preponderance of evidence, and indeed, the Ray Report concluded as such.

7.The Speaker-designate Representative Bob Livingston, chosen by the Republican Party Conference to replace outgoing Speaker Newt Gingrich, announced the end of his candidacy for Speaker and his resignation from Congress from the floor of the house after Livingston's own marital infidelity came to light.

8.Contemporaneously, some media reported on house manager Henry Hyde's marital infidelity of several decades prior.

9. The GOP Congress also passed the Independent Counsel Reauthorization Act of 1994, when the original "independent counsel" was set to expire, without enough evidence for a conviction on original charges. Evidence was never found.

10. I could find no research on any mob connection.

In short, the witch hunt ended with Congress nailing Bubba for nailing Monica, and little else. It marked the zenith for Rovian politics. I wonder what we'd find if there was an "independent counsel" investigation into the Iraq War, or ironically, Blackwater, or Halliburton?--->JMS

what's this have to do with obama sending troops to Afghanistan?

[songsmith]

I honestly can't remember!
What a way to waste a sunny Easter Day. Now I have to clean my bathroom. Even more sh*t to clean up! --->JMS

[Banned]

Still defending Clinton after all these years, and of course now on full defensive mode for B. Hussein. He bows so low that he could have shined the shoes of his Muslim king, and Johnny says it is just a slight protocol misstep.
Light your candle and say your prayers to Slick Willie before you go to bed tonight.

[lonewolf]

Yeah, I can read Wiki too Johnny. I don't know why you cut & pasted it, because all it does is basically re-iterate my much more (as usual) succinct points. Well, except for my mob comment. Maybe this will translate my thoughts better:

2. Perjury was related to the affair, but the obstruction charge was a little more insidious. You know, witness tampering and other cool mob-like stuff.

Had you researched further, you would have found out about the shameful hushup part of the whole thing. Of course, its not to difficult to get an acquittal by a 50-50 vote in the partisan Senate. The fact that it was 50-50 is pretty degrading. I dislike making such a long post, but this is the text from Article III of the impeachment:

"(1) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to execute a sworn affidavit in that proceeding that he knew to be perjurious, false and misleading.

(2) On or about December 17, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly encouraged a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him to give perjurious, false and misleading testimony if and when called to testify personally in that proceeding.

(3) On or about December 28, 1997, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly engaged in, encouraged, or supported a scheme to conceal evidence that had been subpoenaed in a Federal civil rights action brought against him.

(4) Beginning on or about December 7, 1997, and continuing through and including January 14, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton intensified and succeeded in an effort to secure job assistance to a witness in a Federal civil rights action brought against him in order to corruptly prevent the truthful testimony of that witness in that proceeding at a time when the truthful testimony of that witness would have been harmful to him.

(5) On January 17, 1998, at his deposition in a Federal civil rights action brought against him, William Jefferson Clinton corruptly allowed his attorney to make false and misleading statements to a Federal judge characterizing an affidavit, in order to prevent questioning deemed relevant by the judge. Such false and misleading statements were subsequently acknowledged by his attorney in a communication to that judge.

(6) On or about January 18 and January 20-21, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton related a false and misleading account of events relevant to a Federal civil rights action brought against him to a potential witness in that proceeding, in order to corruptly influence the testimony of that witness.

(7) On or about January 21, 23 and 26, 1998, William Jefferson Clinton made false and misleading statements to potential witnesses in a Federal grand jury proceeding in order to corruptly influence the testimony of those witnesses. The false and misleading statements made by William Jefferson Clinton were repeated by the witnesses to the grand jury, causing the grand jury to receive false and misleading information."

[songsmith]

Yes, I remember the witch hunt, I was paying attention then. What I saw was a guy telling the world he didn't cheat on his wife, when he actually had. In order to have an affair, there has to be lies involved. Extramarital affairs are very common. We're all quite aware of that.
The reason for the investigation was Whitewater. Extramarital affairs had nothing to do whatsoever with Whitewater. Bill Clinton still left office with the highest public acceptance numbers of any president.
As for the Wiki reference, I'm sure you'll credit Rush next time as well. --->JMS

[lonewolf]

Yes, I remember the witch hunt, I was paying attention then. What I saw was a guy telling the world he didn't cheat on his wife, when he actually had. In order to have an affair, there has to be lies involved. Extramarital affairs are very common. We're all quite aware of that.
The reason for the investigation was Whitewater. Extramarital affairs had nothing to do whatsoever with Whitewater. Bill Clinton still left office with the highest public acceptance numbers of any president.
As for the Wiki reference, I'm sure you'll credit Rush next time as well. --->JMS

1st of all, my reference was from the Congressional record--you know, that little source of record thingie? The only time I see or hear Rush Limbaugh is when he makes the news. {smacks Johnny upside the head so he remembers next time}.

I'm not talking about Clinton's lies under oath about an affair with a rotund bovine. That was laughable to me. No, this was much more insidious.

He and his administration actively tried to pay off witnesses to a federal grand jury and Congressional inquiry (see The Godfather). That takes things to a whole new level...the same level as covering something up that you initially had nothing to do with.

Only the most legally challenged cannot understand the difference.