Rendell Increases Effort Against Assault Weapons

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:23 am

"The right to bear arms does not mean the right to very dangerous weaponry."

That sentence is not in my Constitution.

Knives are very dangerous. Ask OJ. Pools are dangerous, kills 1000's of kids every summer, are you going to outlaw them too.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:52 am

We're becoming a country of pansies.

Chuxema · Post by **Chuxema** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:17 am

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

This it what it says in the Constitution.
Is anyone on the forum in a militia?

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:22 am

It also says, the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed. Doesn't say those in the militia have the right, it says the people have the right to bear arms for defense.

Chuxema · Post by **Chuxema** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:28 am

I'm sure that "people" means the members of the militia.
I'm not trying to get into a bunch of bullshit with all you guys.
I'm just saying that that is what it says. I totally support gun
control but that is just me. I don't need any guns to feel safe.

Chuxema · Post by **Chuxema** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:29 am

P.S. Fuck this gun control thread.
Check out the Ice Drum thread that Rob started.
It is way more important than this one!

bfoust · Post by **bfoust** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:36 am

RobTheDrummer wrote:We're becoming a country of pansies.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:48 am

Chuxema wrote:I'm sure that "people" means the members of the militia.
I'm not trying to get into a bunch of bullshit with all you guys.
I'm just saying that that is what it says. I totally support gun
control but that is just me. I don't need any guns to feel safe.

Do you even know what the militia is? According to your misinterpretation of Hamilton's Amendment (read the prior page with the big yellow letters to see in his own words what he meant), women outside of the National Guard do not have the right to bear arms.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/u ... -000-.html

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:04 am

Man, are you saying that the government wants to take away my fully-functioning TOW missle system and mustard gas mortar rounds? That's fucking unconstitutional!

Chuxema · Post by **Chuxema** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:44 am

lonewolf wrote: (b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. [/b]

What that basically says to me is that I was right.
An unorganized militia is still a militia.
We can argue to the death over what this actually means
and we could both be wrong and still not technically know.
Neither of us were there when it was written so we are
both just interpreting it in our own ways. All I know is that
there is no reason for a civilian to own a fully automatic
weapon.

You can go ahead and try and prove your point now.
I know you're not going to let this go so you might as
well make your avatar a stick figure boning my mother
and call it a day. I thought this forum was for MUSICIANS
to discuss musical things not for a bunch of people to bitch
about the way things are ran and not do a fucking thing to
change them. The government doesn't care about how we
feel. I know it, you know it, and hopefully the American
people as a whole know it. All we can do is put our hearts
into our music because that is the one thing they haven't taken
away yet.
Go ahead and insult me. I'm used to it.

Cheers!

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:25 pm

bassist_25 wrote:Man, are you saying that the government wants to take away my fully-functioning TOW missle system and mustard gas mortar rounds? That's fucking unconstitutional!

If, by definition, it is not in the Constitution, it is therefore unconstitutional, you are right. There is no list of allowable weapons in the Constitution.

The Founders put in the Second Amendment to help us fight against the tyranny of government, just like they did against their former government, England.

Think about it, hunting rifles and the .22 rifle you often mention, are not enough to fight against this tyrannical government if the need arises. So there was never a mention of which kinds of weapons we may or may not own in the Constitution.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:13 pm

It's funny because the same people that say the Patriot Act takes away our rights, wanna take away our rights to own protection.

fullthrottle666 · Post by **fullthrottle666** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:14 pm

Yes, the Constitution is written with a lot of leeway for interpretation because our founding fathers were smart enough to know that as times change. the needs of society change. Future generations are to interpret the details in keeping with the changes and needs.

"Right to bear arms" does NOT mean the right to any and every weapon ever created. When they wrote this they had in mind a single shot muzzleloader that takes 10 minutes to reload. They couldn't even imagine the potential killing power of a semi-auto mag. Or worse yet the AUTO-MAG.

Gun sales are way up I hear. That's makes me nervous. Why do we need all these guns? How many is enough?

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:39 pm

fullthrottle666 wrote:Yes, the Constitution is written with a lot of leeway for interpretation because our founding fathers were smart enough to know that as times change. the needs of society change. Future generations are to interpret the details in keeping with the changes and needs.

"Right to bear arms" does NOT mean the right to any and every weapon ever created. When they wrote this they had in mind a single shot muzzleloader that takes 10 minutes to reload. They couldn't even imagine the potential killing power of a semi-auto mag. Or worse yet the AUTO-MAG.

Gun sales are way up I hear. That's makes me nervous. Why do we need all these guns? How many is enough?

How far are you gonna take this? Your reasoning is far out there.

shredder138 · Post by **shredder138** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:00 pm

It's funny because the same people that say the Patriot Act takes away our rights, wanna take away our rights to own protection.

who exactly?

fullthrottle666 wrote:
Yes, the Constitution is written with a lot of leeway for interpretation because our founding fathers were smart enough to know that as times change. the needs of society change. Future generations are to interpret the details in keeping with the changes and needs.

"Right to bear arms" does NOT mean the right to any and every weapon ever created. When they wrote this they had in mind a single shot muzzleloader that takes 10 minutes to reload. They couldn't even imagine the potential killing power of a semi-auto mag. Or worse yet the AUTO-MAG.

Gun sales are way up I hear. That's makes me nervous. Why do we need all these guns? How many is enough?

How far are you gonna take this? Your reasoning is far out there.

Far out there for a right winged nutjob I guess. Seems pretty down to earth to me

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:57 pm

bassist_25 wrote:Man, are you saying that the government wants to take away my fully-functioning TOW missle system and mustard gas mortar rounds? That's fucking unconstitutional!

TOW missiles and their design are the exclusive property of the US Department of Defense--as are just about any military item you could think of. If you want TOW missiles, you will simply have to design & build them yourself. Good luck on that, Paul.

Mustard gas, like uranium & plutonium, fall under the category of hazardous materials, not arms.

Anybody know where I can get some scrap sheet titanium cheap?

whitedevilone · Post by **whitedevilone** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:34 pm

fullthrottle666 wrote:Yes, the Constitution is written with a lot of leeway for interpretation because our founding fathers were smart enough to know that as times change. the needs of society change. Future generations are to interpret the details in keeping with the changes and needs.

Gun sales are way up I hear. That's makes me nervous. Why do we need all these guns? How many is enough?

Ha as many as i can get my hands on brother.Sorry i tend to think if you have children you're doing a huge disservice to them if you're unprotected in your home.Sure dial 911 and cower in a closet while someone is kickin down your door.Not i my friend.So don't break into my house and you won't have to wonder how many is enough.Society continues to change for the worse, stay nervous or take control.Seems so simple to me.Peace.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:37 pm

There seems to be a common misconception held by many of those educated during the era of the unconstitutional Department of Education. This is the misconception that the US Constitution is the law governing our people.

Nothing could be further than truth. The people are not subject to the Constitution--we own it and ultimately, we must enforce it.

The US Constitution is a document that governs the federal government and protects the states and the people from that government.

It specifically lists what the federal government is permitted to do and what it is not permitted to do. Anything that is not specifically listed is covered by the 10th amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

If an article or amendment in question does not have specific limits or exceptions listed, the federal government does not have the Constitutional authority to impose limits on that article or amendment without an amendment to the Constitution itself.

For all you constitutional interpreter fans, there is the concept of implied powers. This allows the government to account for unforeseen needs, such as the Air Force or the interstate highway system. These implied powers, however, only apply to specific topics already listed in the Constitution. It doesn't give politicians carte blanche to legislate anything they want, no matter how good the intentions.

For instance, you will not find anything at all on the topics of education or poverty in the Constitution (go on, read it, I dare ya). The Departments of Education and Health & Human Services are gross unconstitutional abuses of power and should be eliminated from the federal government.

fullthrottle666 · Post by **fullthrottle666** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:06 pm

whitedevilone wrote:
fullthrottle666 wrote:Yes, the Constitution is written with a lot of leeway for interpretation because our founding fathers were smart enough to know that as times change. the needs of society change. Future generations are to interpret the details in keeping with the changes and needs.

Gun sales are way up I hear. That's makes me nervous. Why do we need all these guns? How many is enough?
Ha as many as i can get my hands on brother.Sorry i tend to think if you have children you're doing a huge disservice to them if you're unprotected in your home.Sure dial 911 and cower in a closet while someone is kickin down your door.Not i my friend.So don't break into my house and you won't have to wonder how many is enough.Society continues to change for the worse, stay nervous or take control.Seems so simple to me.Peace.

How many till you feel safe? Really safe? 10? 20? 100??

False security is not safety.

DrumAndDestroy · Post by **DrumAndDestroy** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:50 pm

what happens if you're an indecisive type? someone is kicking down your door and you can't decide what gun to use out of the 400 you have stockpiled.

now that's what i call a sticky situation

fullthrottle666 · Post by **fullthrottle666** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:17 pm

LOL. that's a real redneck quandary

instead of buying more guns just RELOAD the one you have

shredder138 · Post by **shredder138** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:05 pm

Sorry i tend to think if you have children you're doing a huge disservice to them if you're unprotected in your home.

Ah, the right winger throwing around insults, there's a surprise. Do you keep that in mind when your daughter is in my unprotected home? No heat there but the hot summer sun.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:54 pm

lonewolf wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:Man, are you saying that the government wants to take away my fully-functioning TOW missle system and mustard gas mortar rounds? That's fucking unconstitutional!
TOW missiles and their design are the exclusive property of the US Department of Defense--as are just about any military item you could think of. If you want TOW missiles, you will simply have to design & build them yourself. Good luck on that, Paul.

Man, are you saying if I want to start my own engineering firm to develop and manufacture my own wire-guided, infantry-based and vehicle-mounted missle system, the government wants to take away my right to sell said missle system on the open market to private United States citizens? That's fucking unconstitutional!

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:30 pm

bassist_25 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:Man, are you saying that the government wants to take away my fully-functioning TOW missle system and mustard gas mortar rounds? That's fucking unconstitutional!
TOW missiles and their design are the exclusive property of the US Department of Defense--as are just about any military item you could think of. If you want TOW missiles, you will simply have to design & build them yourself. Good luck on that, Paul.
Man, are you saying if I want to start my own engineering firm to develop and manufacture my own wire-guided, infantry-based and vehicle-mounted missle system, the government wants to take away my right to sell said missle system on the open market to private United States citizens? That's fucking unconstitutional!

You have a right to keep them & bear them, but nobody said anything about a right to sell them. You can't use high explosives in your missiles either--they are hazardous materials.

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:56 pm

Reasonable limits need to be established to protect my freedom from idiots and those who charish their beliefs.

But I say, go ahead and keep a shi-ton of powder and ammo on hand, only if you don't put up a fight (and pay out) when I sue your ass for burning my house down (with the rest neighborhood) when you accidently set fire to your house during a frantic rub-fest to the newest 'Guns & Ammo' magazine.

Thank god your man parts will be burnt so bad you can't reproduce and screw it all up more for the next generation.

If you want the rights, you have to be willing to step up and accept responsibility for them. And I do mean all gun owners need to stand up and even suck up a little from the idiots among you that leave guns anywhere a child could get to them. If you guys can't even encourage and demand complete and total safety among your so-called-responsible-selves why should I trust you with an arsonal that could level the neighborhood three times over?

Until then, they will always try, successfully, to take your arms away.

If humans can come up with a 'perfectly acceptable' response to so many errors like: "I'm/we're only human". They really can't be trusted with the power to level a neighborhood.

But I am an avid gun fan. Not much out there is more fun than going to the range! Just playing devil's advocate again..