Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest

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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote:Two things.

1. The "paste" was my "post" in another thread - 'Mo Government" I think.
2. You're wrong.
1. Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one.
2. No, I do believe that James Madison and I are right and you are wrong!

It was a lame unsubstantiated comeback.

I don't like lobbying any more than you do. If you want to address lobbying in the Constitution, you need to look at Sections 4 & 5. The appropriations (taxing & spending by the government) listed in Section 8 have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Last edited by lonewolf on Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Flaw »

i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
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Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote:Two things.

1. The "paste" was my "post" in another thread - 'Mo Government" I think.
2. You're wrong.
1. Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one.
2. No, I do believe that James Madison and I are right and you are wrong!

It was a lame unsubstantiated comeback.

I don't like lobbying any more than you do. If you want to address lobbying in the Constitution, you need to look at Sections 4 & 5. The appropriations (taxing & spending by the government) listed in Section 8 have absolutely nothing to do with it.
1. "Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one".
I DID reply in that thread, just wanted to reiterate my points...As I clearly stated, "my post".

2. I believe Alexander Hamilton and I are right and you are wrong.

"lame comeback". It was not a comeback at all. My case was already stated and I stand by it. There was no need for further explanation. No comeback necessary.

Besides, the thread is down to us again and no one else is reading it or cares.
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Post by onegunguitar »

Flaw wrote:i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
Don't blame me Pat,all I did was put up the link to it,I did not say"discuss",hahahaha!!! You could start a topic on the weather and it would turn political on here,lol!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by lonewolf »

Flaw wrote:i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
I think a duel would be more appropriate. Maybe Thunderdome?
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Post by Flaw »

lonewolf wrote:
Flaw wrote:i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
I think a duel would be more appropriate. Maybe Thunderdome?

an old fashion tar and feathering
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Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
Flaw wrote:i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
I think a duel would be more appropriate. Maybe Thunderdome?
:lol: :lol: 30 Paces ? :lol: :lol:
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Post by onegunguitar »

Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
Flaw wrote:i think starting political threads should be punishable by death. Onegun its off to the gallows with you.
I think a duel would be more appropriate. Maybe Thunderdome?
:lol: :lol: 30 Paces ? :lol: :lol:
I see where I stand with you guys,lol!!! :lol: :lol:
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Post by Flaw »

onegunguitar wrote:
Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote: I think a duel would be more appropriate. Maybe Thunderdome?
:lol: :lol: 30 Paces ? :lol: :lol:
I see where I stand with you guys,lol!!! :lol: :lol:
yep we are anti ginger
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote:Two things.

1. The "paste" was my "post" in another thread - 'Mo Government" I think.
2. You're wrong.
1. Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one.
2. No, I do believe that James Madison and I are right and you are wrong!

It was a lame unsubstantiated comeback.

I don't like lobbying any more than you do. If you want to address lobbying in the Constitution, you need to look at Sections 4 & 5. The appropriations (taxing & spending by the government) listed in Section 8 have absolutely nothing to do with it.
1. "Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one".
I DID reply in that thread, just wanted to reiterate my points...As I clearly stated, "my post".

2. I believe Alexander Hamilton and I are right and you are wrong.

"lame comeback". It was not a comeback at all. My case was already stated and I stand by it. There was no need for further explanation. No comeback necessary.

Besides, the thread is down to us again and no one else is reading it or cares.
Here's what Hamilton had to say about the general welfare clause it in Federalist 23. It seems that he had little faith in the diligence of government as well:

Defective as the present Confederation has been proved to be, this principle appears to have been fully recognized by the framers of it; though they have not made proper or adequate provision for its exercise. Congress have an unlimited discretion to make requisitions of men and money; to govern the army and navy; to direct their operations. As their requisitions are made constitutionally binding upon the States, who are in fact under the most solemn obligations to furnish the supplies required of them, the intention evidently was that the United States should command whatever resources were by them judged requisite to the "common defense and general welfare." It was presumed that a sense of their true interests, and a regard to the dictates of good faith, would be found sufficient pledges for the punctual performance of the duty of the members to the federal head.

The experiment has, however, demonstrated that this expectation was ill-founded and illusory;
and the observations, made under the last head, will, I imagine, have sufficed to convince the impartial and discerning, that there is an absolute necessity for an entire change in the first principles of the system; that if we are in earnest about giving the Union energy and duration, we must abandon the vain project of legislating upon the States in their collective capacities; we must extend the laws of the federal government to the individual citizens of America; we must discard the fallacious scheme of quotas and requisitions, as equally impracticable and unjust. The result from all this is that the Union ought to be invested with full power to levy troops; to build and equip fleets; and to raise the revenues which will be required for the formation and support of an army and navy, in the customary and ordinary modes practiced in other governments.
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Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote: 1. Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one.
2. No, I do believe that James Madison and I are right and you are wrong!

It was a lame unsubstantiated comeback.

I don't like lobbying any more than you do. If you want to address lobbying in the Constitution, you need to look at Sections 4 & 5. The appropriations (taxing & spending by the government) listed in Section 8 have absolutely nothing to do with it.
1. "Then you should have replied on that thread and not OT'ed this one".
I DID reply in that thread, just wanted to reiterate my points...As I clearly stated, "my post".

2. I believe Alexander Hamilton and I are right and you are wrong.

"lame comeback". It was not a comeback at all. My case was already stated and I stand by it. There was no need for further explanation. No comeback necessary.

Besides, the thread is down to us again and no one else is reading it or cares.
Here's what Hamilton had to say about the general welfare clause it in Federalist 23. It seems that he had little faith in the diligence of government as well:

Defective as the present Confederation has been proved to be, this principle appears to have been fully recognized by the framers of it; though they have not made proper or adequate provision for its exercise. Congress have an unlimited discretion to make requisitions of men and money; to govern the army and navy; to direct their operations. As their requisitions are made constitutionally binding upon the States, who are in fact under the most solemn obligations to furnish the supplies required of them, the intention evidently was that the United States should command whatever resources were by them judged requisite to the "common defense and general welfare." It was presumed that a sense of their true interests, and a regard to the dictates of good faith, would be found sufficient pledges for the punctual performance of the duty of the members to the federal head.

The experiment has, however, demonstrated that this expectation was ill-founded and illusory;
and the observations, made under the last head, will, I imagine, have sufficed to convince the impartial and discerning, that there is an absolute necessity for an entire change in the first principles of the system; that if we are in earnest about giving the Union energy and duration, we must abandon the vain project of legislating upon the States in their collective capacities; we must extend the laws of the federal government to the individual citizens of America; we must discard the fallacious scheme of quotas and requisitions, as equally impracticable and unjust. The result from all this is that the Union ought to be invested with full power to levy troops; to build and equip fleets; and to raise the revenues which will be required for the formation and support of an army and navy, in the customary and ordinary modes practiced in other governments.
You are wrong again. However I will explain.

First off, he was talking about the Articles of the Confederation. And it was THAT "experiment" he talking about. And he went on to explain how a more powerful federal government, under the new and better constitution would resolve the inadequacies.

Under the Articles of Confederation, the inadequacy of it was described in the last sentence of the first paragraph (you placed) from Federalist paper 23.

He was telling you to solve this problem that, "Congress have an unlimited discretion to make requisitions of men and money."

He further explains in the second paragraph that the "experiment" of the Confederation by "observation" should convince everyone that the "laws of the federal government must be extended to the individual citizens of America.

Hamilton is clearly explaining the need for a strong federal government. One in which they can go directly to the individual citizens when they need to. Rather than going to the states. Going to the states is where they found, insufficient pledges and a lack of good faith. He found it impractical to legislate the states in their collective capacities. Therefore the constitution would expand the laws to individuals.

Rather than requisition money and men from the states. Go directly to the citizens and collect what is needed for defence and the general welfare of the WHOLE. That is what 23 is about.
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Post by Slothkill »

I thought the dude with the gun was right on.
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Post by Hawk »

Interesting that in the thirteenth paragraph of The Federalist paper 22 Hamilton explains how a person from the masses and given power in a republic, could be compinsted by another country to go against the interests of people.

He was half right. Many in congress have been compensated well (but by big business to go against the good of the common citizen.
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Post by lonewolf »

Hawk wrote:Interesting that in the thirteenth paragraph of The Federalist paper 22 Hamilton explains how a person from the masses and given power in a republic, could be compinsted by another country to go against the interests of people.

He was half right. Many in congress have been compensated well (but by big business to go against the good of the common citizen.
He was completely right...don't think for a minute they aren't taking foreign money too.

They all suck and the reason they all suck is because government has gotten too big and too broad catering to everybody's whim. It cannot and will not be get any better until it either cuts its size in half or goes bankrupt.

I'm literally betting on the latter.

Yep Jules, I'm with you...the gun guy was right on.
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Post by Hawk »

The gun. I like it that it is legal ! But to carry it to a Presidential event is wrong.

I'm sure if you went to a Republican event and 50 radical leftists stood next to you armed. You might consider it to be wrong.
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Post by slackin@dabass »

Hawk wrote:
I'm sure if you went to a Republican event and 50 radical leftists stood next to you armed. You might consider it to be wrong.


like a radical leftist would ever carry a gun! now who's exaggerating?
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I

Post by tornandfrayed »

I think that Scott is one of those damn hippies that the old folks talk about....

I heard that they were always talking a shitload of politics...
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Post by Slothkill »

I would love to see 30 leftists with guns, if you carry a gun you gotta be on the side of the Constitution. We all bros.
Hell Id love to see 30 P.a. residents outside of Harrisiburgh with guns DEMANDING a budget
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Post by onegunguitar »

tornandfrayed wrote:I think that Scott is one of those damn hippies that the old folks talk about....

I heard that they were always talking a shitload of politics...
Hahaha! I hate politics and I think it's stupid to argue it,especially on a music forum,but hey,whatever works. :lol: :lol:
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Post by witchhunt »

Ya wanna know what really sucks about gun laws? I can own a pistol, I have a few, but I can't get a carry permit because of a petty misdemeanor in 1983.
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Post by Hawk »

Slothkill wrote:I would love to see 30 leftists with guns, if you carry a gun you gotta be on the side of the Constitution. We all bros.
Hell Id love to see 30 P.a. residents outside of Harrisiburgh with guns DEMANDING a budget
How about 30 Black Panthers ? As leftist as anyone can get. They showed up in 1967 to protest California's attempt to ban guns and they were carrying thei guns legally. The police shut them down, 6 were arrested.

I guarantee they would scare the hell out of you if you were there. These were very radical leftists. Just like the guy who showed up at an Obama event was a radical right winger. I would be scared as hell if there were 30 of him.

lonewolf, did you read my rebuttal to your Federalist paper 23 ?
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wailing

Post by zman1200 »

Iam scared of people with pens they write to much and complain alot. cant trust them at all :!: BY THE WAY IS THIS A MUSIC SITE OR A PISSING CONTEST :?:
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Post by slackin@dabass »

zman1200 wrote:Iam scared of people with pens they write to much and complain alot. cant trust them at all :!: BY THE WAY IS THIS A MUSIC SITE OR A PISSING CONTEST :?:



i think it's general discussion :D
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general

Post by zman1200 »

does this General have any stars ps ilike hawks too they keep the kitten population under control :twisted:
Last edited by zman1200 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by shredder138 »

Kill em All :evil:
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