Obama answers Rockpage right wingers' questions.

[Banned]

At this point in history, Republican vs. Democrat equals conservative vs. liberal. Tea Partiers chanted, "Run Sarah, Run!!" last Saturday at their convention, yet another reason to point at them and shake your head.
Speaking of polls , here's a telling article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35361201/ns ... york_times

Yeah, I know, MSNBC/CBS. Hey, it was on my MSN homepage, and it couldn't be any more biased than Rasmussen is for Fox.--->JMS

Wow, from that same poll:

"Fewer than 1 in 10 Americans say members of Congress deserve re-election."

That is deep dissatisfaction with this government.

Darn right, the people are pissed that we don't have health insurance reform!

Reform, sure like tort reform, but not government run health care! Polls show the public does not want government run plans, just look at the recent Mass. election.

[Hawk]

Wow, from that same poll:

"Fewer than 1 in 10 Americans say members of Congress deserve re-election."

That is deep dissatisfaction with this government.

Darn right, the people are pissed that we don't have health insurance reform!

Reform, sure like tort reform, but not government run health care! Polls show the public does not want government run plans, just look at the recent Mass. election.

Tort reform ? Anti American !

A jury can be trusted with a man's life deciding on execution and life imprisonment. But when it comes to money (which to you is more important than human life) a jury is just to stupid to be trusted. Now that is STUPIDITY at it's highest level !

[Banned]

Yeah Bill, whatever. How's the koolaid?

[Hawk]

Yeah Bill, whatever. How's the koolaid?

Nice concise, to the point, educated rebuttal.

[JackANSI]

Ok in summary...


Obama handed it to some republicans in a "canned" Q&A session.

Obama sucks and so do 143% of the people who voted for him.

Proof was asked for.

Colorful names were handed out.

Koolaid was given.

Tada!


Thats kinda the basic recipe for a rockpage political thread right there..

[f.sciarrillo]

I been debating about whether to respond to the so called rebuttal. As I wanted to see what would come next, and what I thought happen. It doesn't matter what one says or thinks - There will always be a rebuttal as to what the other thinks. Hence, Bills always taking what he hears from Kieth Olberman and putting it into his own context.

Immigration

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe in immigration as an important part of American vibrancy. They also believe that America is weakening itself by allowing illegal immigrants to stream into the country unchecked, both because this influx saps America's sovereignty over her citizens and because the illegal immigrant pathways can also serve terrorists.

Progressive Belief: It's racist to keep illegal immigrants out of the country. For that reason, there should not be any hurdles in the illegal immigrant's path to the full panoply of American rights and welfare services.

The Supreme Court

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe that the role of the Supreme Court is to examine state and federal laws, and lower court decisions to determine whether they comport with the written Constitution. An even lowest common denominator belief is that the Supreme Court should examine only whether federal matters comport with the written Constitution, and to interfere with states only if the states enact laws that conflict or overlap with federal matters.

Progressive Belief: The Supreme Court is to decide what is right and what is wrong - and it can get help for this by looking to each justice's own private standards of morality, to dominant cultural trends, and to foreign systems. Having examined the moral position, the Court should then direct policy consistent with its findings.

Abortion

Core Conservative Belief: Whether you're pro-Choice or pro-Life, Conservatives who are being honest with themselves admit that Roe v. Wade was a badly decided opinion that, without any Constitutional authorization, represented a federal power grab of something that ought to be a states' rights issue. Roe v. Wade should be overturned, so that the question of abortion can be returned to the states, where it belongs. An alternative, of course, is to amend the Constitution so that it specifically allows or disallows abortion.

Progressive Belief: Abortion is an absolute, fundamental right that must remain inviolate. The main reason Progressives must win the White House is to put a stop to the Originalist Supreme Court justices that Conservatives have placed, and will continue to place, on the Supreme Court. Only a Democratic President will appoint justices who will maintain Roe v. Wade's existence.

The Iraq War

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe that, whether or not we made the right decision in 2003 to invade Iraq, it is a done deal. Our only responsibility now is to fight wholeheartedly and to win.

Progressive Belief: President Bush got us into the War to for nefarious reasons, mostly to satisfy his oil buddies in Texas and Cheney's friends at Halliburton. Now, to punish the President and the whole corrupt Bush Administration, we must leave Iraq immediately, regardless of the consequences to America, to Iraq, or to world security.

Islamic Terrorism

Core Conservative Belief: (a) Islamic terrorism is real, (b) it is the product of a totalitarian religious ideology that has as its ultimate goal the destruction of non-Muslim Western culture, (c) there is no middle ground given its goal, and (d) we must fight it.

Progressive Belief: Islamic terrorism is the work of a few people angry at the US (and especially at George Bush), and the best thing we can do to placate these people is to (a) leave Iraq; (b) abandon Israel; (c) dump George Bush; and (d) engage in dialogue with the Islamic leaders.

Taxes

Core Conservative Belief: Government is a bad money manager. People make money grow, and lower taxes allow for a livelier, growing economy. The inevitable result of trusting people with their own money is that the government, despite lower taxes, sees increased revenue (which is nicely balanced out by lower costs).

Progressive Belief: People cannot be trusted to make the right decisions with their money. It's better if the government takes and redistributes wealth, notwithstanding the fact that doing so slows the economy.

Religion

Lowest common denominator Conservative beliefs: (a) Religion is a good thing; (b) It's okay if people's religious values shape their political beliefs; (c) It's okay to acknowledge America's predominant Christianity by nodding to Christmas and Easter, as long as no one is forced to observe those holidays or discriminated against for not observing those holidays; (d) People should be free to worship without government interference in their beliefs; (e) Neither government nor business should be forced to change their practices to accommodate one belief system over others (see here and here for examples of some of the changes demanded).

Progressive Belief: Traditional Christianity is dangerous and must be stifled at all costs, everywhere. Islam has some problems but, to make up for the damage the Bush Administration has done to our standing in the Muslim world, we must accommodate Islamic demands in America.

America

Core Conservative Belief: While America has flaws, we are proud of her, since we believe that the American system and American values are the best human systems of governance yet created.

Progressive Belief: America is an imperialist bully that seeks to destroy non-white people, whether within or outside of America. Her power must be reined in at all costs.

Government

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe in Thoreau's dictum that "That government is best which governs least." Much as they are proud of America, Conservatives trust American people more than any government. To them, government is an artifice that can only legitimately govern with the consent of the governed. Conservatives also believe that individuals are smarter with respect to their own interest than the collective wisdom of government.

Progressive Belief: Progressives believe that government is responsible for fulfilling all citizen needs in all ways. They also believe that the government's collective wisdom about individual interests is greater than individuals' own knowledge about themselves.

Gun Control

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe that the only way a people can remain free is to have their Second Amendment right to carry arms. They like to point to Nazi Germany as an example of what can happen when a government with totalitarian tendencies successfully denies its people the right to carry arms. Conservatives also believe that, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. They like to point to London and Washington, D.C., as examples of what happens when ordinary citizens are denied access to arms.

Progressive Belief: The risks associated with guns are so high that it is government's moral obligation to try to remove them from the population entirely, even if that effort is imperfect (see, e.g., London and Washington, D.C.)

The Nature of Human Beings

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe that human nature is a combination of good and bad and that society's role is to control people's bad impulses through checks and balances that permit people's good sides to flourish.

Progressive Belief: Progressives believe that humans and society are products of their environment and, therefore, perfectible. The role of society is to mold people into better individuals and, ergo, better societies.

Multiculturalism

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives' idea of multiculturalism is still the old Melting Pot idea: people who want to come here should buy into our basic systems of values and history, learn to speak English, and enrich our culture with their background while merging with the whole.

Progressive Belief: Progressives believe that every other culture is superior to American culture, so immigrants and ethnic enclaves should be encouraged to remain separate and distinct. Not only that, they believe that it is the responsibility of ordinary Americans to yield in every instance when there is a conflict between the dominant American culture and an ethnic subculture.

Climate Change

Core Conservative Belief: Conservatives believe that climate change is happening, but they do not believe that the debate is settled as to the anthropocentric idea that it is entirely the West's fault. They recognize that the earth's climate is in a constant state of flux, and want more, less politically charged, information before panic begins. They like the idea of alternative energy sources, since they not only enjoy clean air and water, but would also like to see fewer Petrodollars flow to tyrannically governed nations. Again, though, they do not believe in going off half cocked.

Progressive Belief: Progressives believe that humans are entirely responsible for climate change, that it is an impending catastrophe that could potentially end our way of life, and that the only thing to be done is to take drastic measures, even if they undermine entirely modern civilization.

I think Bill falls into the Progressive Liberal belief.

Oh by the way, Bill. Did you order this DVD Yet? -> http://www.obamadeception.net/

You can watch the full length movie here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

[songsmith]

I can EASILY poke holes in every one of those so-called conservative beliefs. Shall I?
That manifesto is PURE political propaganda, obviously not written by fsciarillo, obviously written by a speechwriter. I can crush the inconsistencies with almost no effort at all, and give evidence to the contrary on pretty much every point of it. Would you like me to? I'm starting to think the wingers' biggest problem is their receptiveness to "We're So Awesome!" hyperbole, because they crave that validation they get from one another.
"Liberals are wrong!"
"I think so, too! We must be right!"
"Here it is on the internet! That proves everything!"
"Let's go misspell a protest sign!"
"I'm putting a picture of Obama in whiteface on mine!"
"Mine's gonna show him with a Hitler moustache!"
"You're really a good American!"
"So are you!"
"It's getting cold in here. Throw some more books on the fire."

------>JMS

[f.sciarrillo]

I can EASILY poke holes in every one of those so-called conservative beliefs. Shall I?
That manifesto is PURE political propaganda, obviously not written by fsciarillo, obviously written by a speechwriter. I can crush the inconsistencies with almost no effort at all, and give evidence to the contrary on pretty much every point of it. Would you like me to? I'm starting to think the wingers' biggest problem is their receptiveness to "We're So Awesome!" hyperbole, because they crave that validation they get from one another.
"Liberals are wrong!"
"I think so, too! We must be right!"
"Here it is on the internet! That proves everything!"
"Let's go misspell a protest sign!"
"I'm putting a picture of Obama in whiteface on mine!"
"Mine's gonna show him with a Hitler moustache!"
"You're really a good American!"
"So are you!"
"It's getting cold in here. Throw some more books on the fire."

------>JMS

The main belief of a liberal is socialism is grand ,, as for your rebuttal points. They are the perfect example of how liberals never give substance in what they say to combat what is said. They only come up with insults and ridiculous statements.

[JackANSI]

Wow.. how many times do people need reintroduced to the kettle and the pot?

[f.sciarrillo]

Wow.. how many times do people need reintroduced to the kettle and the pot?

LOL ... That is a true statement. It is ironic, though. Every ones side is the correct side. It is for that reason there is never a equal ground on any of it ...

[Banned]

Yeah Bill, whatever. How's the koolaid?

Nice concise, to the point, educated rebuttal.

Its what you deserve why you say that tort reform is anti American.

[Hawk]

Yeah Bill, whatever. How's the koolaid?

Nice concise, to the point, educated rebuttal.

Its what you deserve why you say that tort reform is anti American.

Then help me out here Joe. Tort reform limits payouts right ? A jury can't be trusted to decide payout amounts ? Is a jury imcompotent when it comes to money ? If this is what you believe (?) then why do you trust a jury with any other decision ?

Honestly, I don't get it. Will you explain it to me ?

[Banned]

I don't trust any jury. Just look at the O J trial.

[Hawk]

I don't trust any jury. Just look at the O J trial.

Do they ever get it wrong, of course, but it's still the best system in the world.

[songsmith]

I'm starting to think the wingers' biggest problem is their receptiveness to "We're So Awesome!" hyperbole, because they crave that validation they get from one another.
"Liberals are wrong!"
"I think so, too! We must be right!"
"Here it is on the internet! That proves everything!"
"Let's go misspell a protest sign!"
"I'm putting a picture of Obama in whiteface on mine!"
"Mine's gonna show him with a Hitler moustache!"
"You're really a good American!"
"So are you!"
"It's getting cold in here. Throw some more books on the fire."

------>JMS

The main belief of a liberal is socialism is grand ,, as for your rebuttal points. They are the perfect example of how liberals never give substance in what they say to combat what is said. They only come up with insults and ridiculous statements.

I can, and do give substantive rebuttals to everything I respond to. In fact, I'm OFTEN derided for posting too much of an explanation, and I'll place the content and form of my posts alongside anyone's. I make statements that are outrageous to you and other rightwingers because that's what you need from me. I can be in-depth, but Foxers only seem to respond to quick soundbites and phrases repeated over and over.
What substance do you wish to see in my posts? Agreement? Not gonna happen, because not only do I know what you believe, but where you get that belief. Deepen your focus a little bit, and listen to partisan media, and it gets very clear: It's easier to listen to media figures talking and agree/disagree, than it is to figure it out on your own. Especially if media presents it as if you came up with it yourself.
Those "core beliefs" you posted might get taken seriously if they didn't come prepackaged with corresponding attacks on the left. Not only did that B.S. list what conservatives "know," it also "defined" what liberals know. Once again, the far right thinks they get to make all the definitions. That doesn't sound like democracy to me, but hey, you get to make all the definitions. --->JMS

[witchhunt]

I don't trust any jury. Just look at the O J trial.

I still think it was Walter Payton.

[Banned]

I'm starting to think the wingers' biggest problem is their receptiveness to "We're So Awesome!" hyperbole, because they crave that validation they get from one another.
"Liberals are wrong!"
"I think so, too! We must be right!"
"Here it is on the internet! That proves everything!"
"Let's go misspell a protest sign!"
"I'm putting a picture of Obama in whiteface on mine!"
"Mine's gonna show him with a Hitler moustache!"
"You're really a good American!"
"So are you!"
"It's getting cold in here. Throw some more books on the fire."

------>JMS

The main belief of a liberal is socialism is grand ,, as for your rebuttal points. They are the perfect example of how liberals never give substance in what they say to combat what is said. They only come up with insults and ridiculous statements.

I can, and do give substantive rebuttals to everything I respond to. In fact, I'm OFTEN derided for posting too much of an explanation, and I'll place the content and form of my posts alongside anyone's. I make statements that are outrageous to you and other rightwingers because that's what you need from me. I can be in-depth, but Foxers only seem to respond to quick soundbites and phrases repeated over and over.
What substance do you wish to see in my posts? Agreement? Not gonna happen, because not only do I know what you believe, but where you get that belief. Deepen your focus a little bit, and listen to partisan media, and it gets very clear: It's easier to listen to media figures talking and agree/disagree, than it is to figure it out on your own. Especially if media presents it as if you came up with it yourself.
Those "core beliefs" you posted might get taken seriously if they didn't come prepackaged with corresponding attacks on the left. Not only did that B.S. list what conservatives "know," it also "defined" what liberals know. Once again, the far right thinks they get to make all the definitions. That doesn't sound like democracy to me, but hey, you get to make all the definitions. --->JMS

John, just about every idea you post seems to come directly from MSNBC. You live on putting down right wing media, but you sound exactly like Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman (or should I make up funny names like you do for Rush, Beck and Tea Party) from MSNBC. Any idea outside of your liberal template drives you crazy, like you psychotic hatred of Palin.

You are always defining things according to the strict left wing media's template.

I try to show that both left and right today are both corrupted. We need a new and different way. Maybe not so new, I kinda like how the Founders set this country up.

[songsmith]

[I try to show that both left and right today are both corrupted. .

Then you spout rightwing extremism straight from the Fox news tap. The last thing you'll ever get away with on Rockpage is pretending you're middle-of-the-road.
I'd have a bit of trouble quoting MSNBC: I specifically avoid it like the plague so people like YOU can't accuse me of it. My thoughts are MINE, Hoss. If what I say jives with other anti-extremists, well so be it.
As for making up funny names, I got that from the talkshows, just like you. If Rush can do it, so can I.
Have a good Saturday. Real life beckons me away.--->JMS

[Banned]

I am not going for middle of the road. That is like a moderate. I am for kicking both parties out on their keisters.

I am an anti- statist, a libertarian, a Constitutionalist and want very limited government. I am not a flag waver, I think we need to start all over again anyway with a new country. I might be a revolutionary, just like some folks were 225 some years ago.

You posts sound like MSNBC because there is a very limited liberal template which they all follow, so even though you do not watch MSNBC, they all say the same things anyway.

I agree with Fox whenever they criticize liberal democrats and I am with MSNBC when they criticize neoCon republicans. The problem with each is that they fail to see the same faults with their own parties that they criticize in the other.

[f.sciarrillo]

I am the same way - Both the Liberals and Dems are corrupted. That is why I haven't voted for either yet ..

[Hawk]

I kinda like how the Founders set this country up.

Did they want national and world corporations to run our government ?

I didn't know that.

I mean, that's undercoverjoe rhetoric. To trust companies before you trust your government ?

Two things the founding fathers didn't know. People would become professional politicians and corporate insurgence would run congress with the support of the Supreme Court.

[Banned]

I kinda like how the Founders set this country up.

Did they want national and world corporations to run our government ?

I didn't know that.

I mean, that's undercoverjoe rhetoric. To trust companies before you trust your government ?

Two things the founding fathers didn't know. People would become professional politicians and corporate insurgence would run congress with the support of the Supreme Court.

And they never knew that the government would create an entitlement mindset that the government will take care of everything, who has to work.

These are all reasons we need a clean sweep and start anew.

[songsmith]

These are all reasons we need a clean sweep and start anew.

Agreed. I don't support the Pelosi/Reid version of govt anymore than I support the Bush/Cheney version, BUT: there were elections, and American voters spoke. Literally at that moment, the people who lost then started on the whole idea that the people who won should have no power. Suddenly the system they loved as former patriots was now horribly broken, and power should be given back to the very people who broke it. Nonsense.

It's not a clean sweep if you reinstall the same people who swept us to war and stoved in the foundations of our economy. It's not liberty if there's only one way to think about anything. Conservatism does not have a lock on morality, or patriotism, or common sense, or right/wrong, anymore than liberalism... and the proof is in the history books, and right here in the now.

I will never cave to special-interest groups like the Tea Party, because I see them for what they are: malcontents longing for a past golden age that exists only in their own skewed memories... either the Reagan era, when govt benefitted the rich at the expense of the middle class; or the Bush 43 era, when govt benefitted the rich at the expense of everyone else.--->JMS

[Banned]

Some political cartoons you might like:

http://www.dailypaul.com/blog/5255