Neutral Political Observations

[Hawk]

Just an observation. I'm still on hiatus. This is a "neutral" position thread and is intended to be a knock on the media. Watch for these tactics and don't be fooled by them.

Observation # 1

Politicians and POLLS and the political pundits take...

If you oppose a politician and his decision (on any topic) the answer is A. If you like a politician and his decision, the answer is B. Both the right and the left use this tatic.



Goes with the poll:

A. He is weak and goes which ever way the wind blows.
B. He listens to the people.

OR

Goes against the poll:

A. He has his own (diabolical) agenda and will push it through no matter what the people want.
B. He is a leader who can make his own decisions even if the decision is unpopular.

(just a note, Limbaugh uses these lines of thought on a regular basis. Both sides do, but Limbaugh has made it an art form to the highest degree)

Observation # 2 - The Car Wreck

Did you ever get in a traffic jam only to find out that everyone slowed down just to see a car wreck on the other side of the road ? Did you ever see highlights from a car race and the wrecks fill out most of the film ?

I don't know why, but for some reason, the negative aspects of life seems to be an attraction. Like fights at a hockey game. No one would go to a hockey game if fights were not a part of it.

The never ending search for CONTROVERSY (i.e. fights & car wrecks) can make Millions and Billions of dollars for the media.

IMHO so much of Fox and MSNBC (and their radio counter parts) provide controversy to their viewers. Perhaps the watchers get a shot of adrenalin that keeps them coming back for more.

I think Fox spends it's time looking for Democratic "car wrecks" and their followers eat it up. Just as MSNBC spends time looking for Republican "car wrecks" and their respective viewers eat it up.

It's all about serving up FORCED controversy for the pleasure of the viewers and it makes the pundits rich.

If you only watch / listen to one side, you'll miss some of the "car wrecks" because they simply won't cover them.

I'm just getting really tired of these over used tactics...

[bassist_25]

Bill, this isn't meant as an insult, but I think you're stating the obvious. On the other hand, I've learned that sometimes people need the obvious stated to them. In my experience, a lot of people are poor consumers of information, especially research and statistical information. I agree that one must look at multiple sources and synthesize that information to reach a cogent conclusion. However, it's a soundbite world. Couple that with a lack of time and people's propensity for a confirmation bias, and you're not going to find a lot of folks getting to the the core Truth, which is most likely a subjective concept anyways. The world's far from black and white, but people on both sides of the spectrum would have you believe that it is.

[Hawk]

Bill, this isn't meant as an insult, but I think you're stating the obvious. On the other hand, I've learned that sometimes people need the obvious stated to them. In my experience, a lot of people are poor consumers of information, especially research and statistical information. I agree that one must look at multiple sources and synthesize that information to reach a cogent conclusion. However, it's a soundbite world. Couple that with a lack of time and people's propensity for a confirmation bias, and you're not going to find a lot of folks getting to the the core Truth, which is most likely a subjective concept anyways. The world's far from black and white, but people on both sides of the spectrum would have you believe that it is.

You have summed up my observations well, with the analytical precision I would expect from you.

[lonewolf]

Paul, don't do anything to discourage him...this is new territory for Bill and I believe he's starting to get it.

[lonewolf]

Next level: analyze how media and politician spin creates the illusion of crises.

[bassist_25]

Paul, don't do anything to discourage him...this is new territory for Bill and I believe he's starting to get it.

Damn it, I'm an enabler! I'm no better than a bartender serving a known alchoholic.

Next level: analyze how media and politician spin creates the illusion of crises.

A good dissertation title for a sociology grad student somewhere...

When Pigs Fly: A Critical Theory Analysis of Political and Media Hyperbole Framing of the Swine Flu and Society's Subsequent Shatting of Their Pants Over the Illusion of a Pandemic

[Hawk]

Next level: analyze how media and politician spin creates the illusion of crises.

Excellent point !

[bassist_25]

Goes against the poll:

A. He has his own (diabolical) agenda and will push it through no matter what the people want.
B. He is a leader who can make his own decisions even if the decision is unpopular.

This reminds me...I read an article a couple days ago on CNN that put forth the question of whether or not Obama is an "Undecider." The thesis of the article was that while Bush's policies and actions may not have been good in hindsight, he did get his agenda pushed through, regardless of how intense or large the opposition. Obama, on the other hand, is sputtering by playing politics and not taking a firm stand to get his policies pushed through.

I found that interesting, and it got me thinking. Obama ran on the platform of being a transformational leader. Once in office, he started being transactional. That's understandable and not surprising. Any good leader keeps a balance of transformational and transactional behaviors. How else are you going to get something done? You can intrinsically motivate your base, but you're going to have to enter into a transactional relationship with the people who oppose you, even if you can use interest based bargaining to reach an agreement.

However, I think that Obama is failing on his transactional leadership. By trying to bargain every detail with the Republicans, I think he's watering down his agenda, which in turn, is watering down policy. Last week, I was talking to a gentleman, and he said, "The problem with Obama is he's a system guy. His allegiance is to the system." I have to agree - for better or for worse, Obama is trying to use the system in order to enact the Change he talked about so much during his campaign. The problem is that he's letting the system dictate what the outcome will be. This health care issue is a classic example. What started out in the summer and fall as having the potential to be a decent piece of legislation has been watered down into some legislation that will A). Spend a lot of money B). Maybe have some small benefit for America's health care. In short, it's a watered down pork bill that may end up not making anyone on the left or right all that happy. It was a great political move from the Republicans to drag their feet and push tort reform as the panacea for all of America's health care issues. If the bill turns out to be ineffective, come November, the Republicans can just say, "Hey, look at the Democrats. They're the one's who signed off on this. We had nothing to do with it."

While I respect being diplomatic, which is something that we didn't see much of with the last administration, Obama needs to pick and choose when and with whom to be diplomatic. He needs to work with the Republicans who are old school politicians, as I like to say - politicians who are sensible people interested in what's best for America and are willing to listen to the other side, even if they don't agree - such as Charlie Crist. He needs to tell the obstructionists like Mitch McConnell to take a hike and find the Republicans willing to work on creating a great piece of legislation rather than pushing to entirely scrap the bill in order to make the Dems look ineffective before November.

All IMHO, of course. Hopefully this post didn't pull Bill off of political hiatus.

[songsmith]

[If the bill turns out to be ineffective, come November, the Republicans can just say, "Hey, look at the Democrats. They're the one's who signed off on this. We had nothing to do with it."

On the other hand, which Republican wants to be the one who says, "We're going to take away the tiny bit of reform you got?" The Dems will simply point out that they are the ones who tried to make it better, and the GOP are the ones who gridlocked everything, then want to undo what little was done. It'd be an easy political tactic to put a magnifying glass on the ones who insisted on the status quo, on keeping the broken system. Remember, while voters disagree on the fix, nobody wants it to stay the same anymore. In addition, like the Bush Tax Cuts, most of the change takes place after Obama leaves office. Every molecule of this legislation is designed to retain congressional seats in an anti-encumbent political atmosphere, and fringe-groups notwithstanding, it could work.--->JMS

[bassist_25]

On the other hand, which Republican wants to be the one who says, "We're going to take away the tiny bit of reform you got?" The Dems will simply point out that they are the ones who tried to make it better, and the GOP are the ones who gridlocked everything, then want to undo what little was done. It'd be an easy political tactic to put a magnifying glass on the ones who insisted on the status quo, on keeping the broken system. Remember, while voters disagree on the fix, nobody wants it to stay the same anymore. In addition, like the Bush Tax Cuts, most of the change takes place after Obama leaves office. Every molecule of this legislation is designed to retain congressional seats in an anti-encumbent political atmosphere, and fringe-groups notwithstanding, it could work.--->JMS

Then it will probably come down to which side's pudits and campaigners can yell the loudest about whose fault it is for the system's failure. The Dems will say it was the Republican's fault for being obstructionist and the Reps will say it was the Democrat's fault for trying to socialize health care. Of course, you're right about the change. If this health care legislation does succeed, it's not going to be overnight. Unfortunately, a lot of the people with the aforementioned confirmation biases are going to ignore that fact come election time.

[Hawk]

Next level: analyze how media and politician spin creates the illusion of crises.

Excellent point !

In fact this is such a good point that I wonder if everyone recognises it from their own side (be it conservative or liberal) ?

If you don't, you are a poor example (or perhaps the standard example ) of the modern voter.

If you DO recognise it, do you ignore it or do you accept that it is something that is expected ? Or are you actually able to see through your own team's spin and judge accordingly ?

[Banned]

[If the bill turns out to be ineffective, come November, the Republicans can just say, "Hey, look at the Democrats. They're the one's who signed off on this. We had nothing to do with it."

It'd be an easy political tactic to put a magnifying glass on the ones who insisted on the status quo, on keeping the broken system.

The only thing worse than keeping the status quo on a broken system is to force a much "worser" bill which the American people do not want and Congress could never even pass without unConstitutional trickery.

[Hawk]

[If the bill turns out to be ineffective, come November, the Republicans can just say, "Hey, look at the Democrats. They're the one's who signed off on this. We had nothing to do with it."

It'd be an easy political tactic to put a magnifying glass on the ones who insisted on the status quo, on keeping the broken system.

The only thing worse than keeping the status quo on a broken system is to force a much "worser" bill which the American people do not want and Congress could never even pass without unConstitutional trickery.

Now now fallas. Help me out here so I can keep myself out of the spinning rhetoric.

Help me focus on the thread and the spins relative to the media on BOTH sides.

[f.sciarrillo]

I am watching this thing unfold on C-Span ..

[mjb]

I am watching this thing unfold on C-Span ..

this thread is on c-span? wow!