Reading music

[floodcitybrass]

So I was lurking in the developing your ear thread. I was wondering who out there does read music on any instrument. I am obviously not including tablature or just chords names. I'm talking notes ans rhythms.

If so, what is your experience? (Mel Bay, real books/jazz, broadway musicals, etc.)

How has reading music helped you in other aspects of music?

[KeithReynolds]

I personally cant read music at all, nor do I want to. When I was in 5th grade, I played the cello for the school band and learned to read sheet music. I forgot it after band was over and never cared to relearn anything.

[f.sciarrillo]

I would actually love to learn how to read music. The thing is now with tab, is there any real need to learn how to read music?

[lynch1]

I tend to agree that since there is tab, why read music. to take it a step furt, her, tabs from magazines usually have the music note above it, so you can learn to read music if you pay attention to the notes. other than that tabs are "cheat sheets". On line tabs from others don't have the notes, so you can ignore them. I think other posts were saying that in some situations you don't have the luxury of tabs, so you have to be able to sight read. I can't read music either, but when I get with "real musicians" and they change the key of a song, I'm lost. so knowing music and theory are vital in those instances. I used to work in a music store and parents often asked if their child should take lessons. I always said yes, because 1. there were teachers there that could always use the money. 2. I believed that knowing music would only help them down the road. A musician does need to develope their ear, some have it naturally, but it can be taught.

[RamRod 1]

No. Took piano lessons 42 years ago and my piano teacher told my to tell my mother that I should quit.

That's interesting. I made a living playing full time for 4 years in the "70's" and have been making bucks ever since I was 15 playing in bands but to do that, it wasn't nesessary to be able to read music.

I compare it to being able to speak a language but not being able to read or write the language. You can still speak and understand the language and probable make as much sense as anybody else and you might be able to make up poems that are great but you just wouldn't know how to write them down.

[bassist_25]

It's anybody's choice whether or not to read music, and many people have made it far without reading one lick of standard notation. With that said, the more you know, the more gig opportunities there are. As I said in the other thread, forget a majority of session or pit work if you can't read. Forget playing jazz. A lot of it's improvised, but you still need to read to learn the heads if someone throws something at you on the band stand that you've never heard before.

And no, tab has not rendered standard notation obsolete, far from it, actually. If you show up at a session or rehearsal and you get something put in front of you, it's not going to be tab. In those situations, musicians need to be speaking a universal language, and as I said in the other thread, '1' '3' and '4" don't mean shit to a horn player or pianist unless you're talking about meter.

Also, a lot of the tabs out there are written by people who can barely play. The majority of published standard notation are written by people who have somewhat of a clue. I know it's a bit of an appeal to authority, but do you want your notation coming from a kid who just got his Squier starter pack a month ago or someone who graduated from Berklee who does arrangements for a living?

I'm not saying I never learned a tune from tab or still don't learn tunes from tab, but there's a reason why it's not considered the vangaurd of music notation. I can read standard notation, but sadly my sight reading ability on bass has become quite oxidized. And yes, I've had to turn down gigs because of it. YMMV

[mjb]

Why would you not want to learn how to read music? thats just plain old stupid. i'm not a site reader but can work through some stuff if i have too, and what i do know i learned between the ages of 6-9 and i've never forgotten it. Now, for what i'm passionate about i don't really need it per se, yell out the key and its on! thats great stuff and i love it, but i'm really limited to what i can do musicly but to listen to people knock standard notation and to say all they need is tab is a fucking joke. i snag stuff off the internet for practice mostly the lyrics with the chord above where the change is and thats just to make practice go a little smoother, but if we were starting a band and you showed up with a bunch of tab so you could learn songs, i probobly wouldn't say anything but i also wouldn't tell you when the next practice was either. not at this stage of the game.

i have a buddy who gives lessons and he writes out the lessons in tab for his students and i just think thats terrible... to spend time leaening numbers with squiggly lines andall the crazy shit you have to figure out on tab, aren't you better off learning F,A,C,E and E,G,B,B,F... tab is confusing......tab is lame, limiting and will only take you so far. IMO

Early on i messed with it, but really i just couldn't understand it lol it seemed easy enough but maybe i should have started with something easier than Peaches of Ragalia. also i found tabs to be dead wrong most of the time.. maybe its gotten better as i haven't messed with it for 20 years probobly but when i was messin with it i could HEAR that the transcription was wrong and i think that also had a negative impact on how i feel about it.

my wife, last christmas bought me a Derek Trucks song book in tab, bless her heart, she thought i would like it and she doesn't know any better, she knows i'm a fan and seen the book and thought PERFECT probobly and bought it. i opened it up and was greatful she thought of me but i haven't looked at in since. i just feel theres a cheapness about learning stuff that way like you don't really earn it. and to tell you the truth, i'm not going to spend alot of time these days learning sombody elses work. its kind of silly to labor too long learning something that somebody else wrote. i'd rather put the time in to an original composition.

[mjb]

after thinking about it, i gave my perspective through where i'm at now but after thinking about it a little bit more and looking at it through a beginners eyes, i can remember it a little differently. i remember tabs being relivant at a time in my playing. it was real early on and all the guitar mags had 4-5 songs, and i remember hoping that there would be at least one good song that i liked, get it home and if you could just do one lick or chord change playing along with the record/tape it was enough to keep the dream alive. and you would be stoked. so as a beginner, tab was good in that sense and played a part in the big picture to some degree. i think me finding mistakes in the transcriptions was the beginning of me not trusting them.

[f.sciarrillo]

That is a good point about the transcription mistakes, Mike. You do see some of those in tab. I remember Wolf Marshall doing a lot of the transcription, for guitar world? There was quite a bit of it in there. But then if you look at it in a right perspective, the only people who know how it is really played are the people who wrote the song to begin with; and tab just gives you a round reasoning of how to play it.

I do like I said want to learn how to read music, that would be the bomb. My point was that with tab is there really a reason to? Maybe knowing both would broaden the horizons more?

[bassist_25]

My point was that with tab is there really a reason to? Maybe knowing both would broaden the horizons more?

Again, it really comes down to what you want to accomplish. If your goal is to just jam on some of your favorite tunes, then learning how to read standard notation probably won't be as beneficial to you as someone who wants to open up as many gig opportunities as possible for himself or herself.

[mjb]

[quote="f.sciarrillo"]That is a good point about the transcription mistakes, Mike. You do see some of those in tab. I remember Wolf Marshall doing a lot of the transcription, for guitar world? There was quite a bit of it in there. But then if you look at it in a right perspective, the only people who know how it is really played are the people who wrote the song to begin with; and tab just gives you a round reasoning of how to play it.

I do like I said want to learn how to read music, that would be the bomb. My point was that with tab is there really a reason to? Maybe knowing both would broaden the horizons more?[/quote

if you want to be a professional musican.. tab aint gonna do anything for ya. if you wanna hang out and learn some tunes and thats the extent you want to take it to then... tab at it!

[Jim Price]

I learned to read music at an early age when I took accordion lessons. There you had to read to be able to play both the right hand (melody) and left hand (bass/chords). I eventually could do some tunes by ear, but I think learning to read music helped me get acquainted with fingering and note locations more quickly.

Recently, being able to read music definitely has helped me in learning uke and guitar from the Mel Bay books. I also have perfect pitch, though, so I can play by ear to learn tunes not in the books.

Depending on your situation and what you want to accomplish, you may or may not need to learn to read music. But I think it can't hurt to have that ability in your arsenal; it can open more possibilities up to you and give you another avenue in, especially if you want to learn another instrument later on.

[mjb]

Sorry didn't see your post Paul. but thats hitting the nail on the head...again.

[Jasaoke]

I also think that there is a big difference between reading standard notation and have a good base knowledge of music theory. I know people who can sight read ANYTHING but fumble around to play G#m when someone calls the chord. If you have a strong working knowledge of theory, the rest of it gets much easier. I may not know the "solo" note-for-note, but I know it's in this particular key and uses these chords, so I can get pretty darn close just by connecting those dots. When you understand the language and mechanics of music, the notation (be it standard or tab) becomes much easier to digest.

[KeithReynolds]

Did I mention I dont know any theory either??

I Cant read music, have horrible ears, and I dont know music theory. Maybe I should just be a Janitor.

[ZappasXWife]

I also think there is a big difference in the instrument you are referring to. If I played guitar, I would see how reading music would be not as important. With piano, at least to get started it is more so. I can't really explain why either. I liked the analogy of knowing how to speak the language but then knowing how to write and read it too. My mom gave lessons but I was too stubborn to listen to her so I taught myself following the notes on the lines (only knowing middle C to start with) out of her old books (those real thick heavy burgundy-colored ones) of classical music from like 1920. I have 8 volumes of them, I loved playing out of them, they are great. I got quite good actually. I wish I could motivate myself to get back into it, it has been years...

[bassist_25]

. Maybe I should just be a Janitor.

...a career in the custodial arts as Bender from the Breakfast Club would say.

[KeithReynolds]

Sometimes I feel alot like John Bender.

Dont get me wrong, even with not being able to read music, having horrible ears, not knowing theory and having horrible technique....I still like to play guitar, bass, drums and keys.
Ive jammed with people when Im playing drums, bass and guitar and dont feel any of those "limitations" hold me back. Well, besides practicing the instrument. I dont play enough of anything to really excel at any of them. I go through phases where I dont want to touch anything...except for myself.

[floodcitybrass]

I can see how people don't need to read music for guitar because guitar and bass are such awesome pattern instruments.
They are just about 100% transposible instruments when going up. You can learn scales and chords and slide them up and down the neck.
I play different instruments and I can tell you that my favorite thing about guitar is the pattern playing and ability to transpose.
So if you are playing a song in C and you then decide its to low and want ot move it to C#, guitar and bass might not have a problem. The keyboards and horns may have problem because you cant just slide your fingers up 1/2 step. Its totally different transposiing on other instruments.



Many people claim they don't know music theory, but I believe they know some theory.
Do you know what a D5 chord is vs a D chord?
Do you know a penatonic scale.
Do you know when to play a major penatonic scale vs minor penatonic.
Do you know what a relative minor is?
Do you the difference between a major and minor chord?
Do you know what a 12 bar blues pattern is?
Do you know what a 1/2 step and a step is?

If you answered yes to any of the questions above then you know some music theory.

[KeithReynolds]

haha, Id have to answer NO to all those questions.

[floodcitybrass]

haha, Id have to answer NO to all those questions.

Now that just took all the wind out of my sails.

[KeithReynolds]

haha, Id have to answer NO to all those questions.

Now that just took all the wind out of my sails.

I didnt mean to at all! I was just stating that I really dont know any theory. Certainly dont use me as a basis to prove something. Im a very unstable subject unfortunately.
I only know like 3 chords that I learned 12 years ago. I dont know any notes on the fretboard & I dont know keys. Im a shitty musician when I think about it. I dont think, I just play.

[DirtySanchez]

Forget playing jazz.

Don't tell

Wes Montgomery, Buddy Rich, Or Dave Brubeck that.

Montgomery did eventually learn before he died.

Dave Brubeck composed full orchestrations without being able to.

[mjb]

Forget playing jazz.

Don't tell

Wes Montgomery, Buddy Rich, Or Dave Brubeck that.

Montgomery did eventually learn before he died.

Dave Brubeck composed full orchestrations without being able to.

crunch...

[bassist_25]

C'mon Brian, being able to put forth a few extraordinary examples doesn't discount the common rule. Most of the cats I come across aren't Wes Montgomery or Dave Brubeck. I know a couple of people who smoked two packs a day, drove 90 mph wherever they went, ate bacon and sausage every morning, and they didn't die when they were young.