Wireless mics

[joltinjeff]

Can anyone explain to me what the deal is with the wireless mic situation. Someone told me they were changing the laws for the use of wireless mics. I need to know this before I decide to go looking for a wireless mic system.

[lonewolf]

It will become illegal to operate any wireless equipment using the 700Mhz UHF frequency band after June 12, 2010. The government has seized this band for re-allocation.

Check your wireless system's operating frequency. If it operates between 698Mhz and 806Mhz, it will be illegal to use after June 12, 2010.

Mic wireless, guitar wireless....even garage door openers...it doesn't matter what it is, as long as it emits a UHF frequency in this band.

[Josevo]

Enjoy!

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/wirelessmicropho ... urers.html

[Asundor]

SAY WHAT!!!!!! THATS JUST FUCKED UP!!!SHIT I DONT CARE I'LL STILL USE MINE.

[UncleScabby]

What is the penalty?

[Flaw]

What is the penalty?

lethal injection

[funkmeister]

Can anyone explain to me what the deal is with the wireless mic situation. Someone told me they were changing the laws for the use of wireless mics. I need to know this before I decide to go looking for a wireless mic system.

Get ready for another round. Looks like the 600mHz band may be auctioned off in 2014. Petitions already being formulated asking for "compensation" from the TV people who will benefit. Great for the big guys - crap for the little guys tryin' to make music and the occassional buck who may need to scrap all that 3 yr old or less wireless stuff. i'm goin' back to wired...

[carvinplayer]

I just recently purchased a wireless system for guitar, it's digital. The store clerk says that is the wave of the future. With these Gov. regs and cell phones and such all interfering with the old systems, digital is the way to go. You might pay a little more for them but it's cleaner and better than "on the air" systems.

[funkmeister]

I just recently purchased a wireless system for guitar, it's digital. The store clerk says that is the wave of the future. With these Gov. regs and cell phones and such all interfering with the old systems, digital is the way to go. You might pay a little more for them but it's cleaner and better than "on the air" systems.

Only one I know of so far is the Line six stuff. They operate in the license-free 1.2GHz range. They get great reviews for clean signal, no dropouts etc etc and the FTC has so far left that range alone.

[carvinplayer]

The Line 6 wireless is what I recently purchased. A little pricy, but worth the investment. I am very pleased with it so far....

[funkmeister]

The Line 6 wireless is what I recently purchased. A little pricy, but worth the investment. I am very pleased with it so far....

Good choice - their wireless stuff is license - free worldwide! i did misquote the frequency range; althogh it won't impact your purchase. they are in the 2.4 GHz range. Rock on brother....

[Pedro Mota]

Just out of curiosity

Wireless has the same quality as a wired Instrument or mic?

Many people told me never to get Wireless Equipment that's why i ask

[Gordo]

Just out of curiosity

Wireless has the same quality as a wired Instrument or mic?

Many people told me never to get Wireless Equipment that's why i ask

I play bass through a Line 6 wireless and the guitar player in my band plays through a Samson wireless in the same frequency range. Neither of us notice any drop outs in frequency response or signal. While using a wireless would not work in a studio situation, wired signals being the better choice, considering the noise on stage and in the venue you are playing, nobody in the audience, and nobody in the band, will notice any appreciable difference in sound quality, if there is any.

[JackANSI]

The people who eschew wireless probably had a bad experience many years ago. In the last 5-10 years wireless has gotten much better. Especially the digital-based wireless units.

That said, don't think for a second that a sub-$150 new wireless is going to be anything but "acceptable", even now days. I think the only good one in the sub-$250 market is the digital line 6 G30.

Some people claim that digital wireless adds so much latency it is impossible to use. The actual latency added to your signal path by the Line 6 wireless is 4ms. Or in audio terms it is standing about 4-5 feet further from your amp. I've never had an issue with this. (digital wireless requires the analog signal to be converted to digital at one end and reconverted to analog at the other and this takes about 4ms)

I think this came about because when you have wireless, you can go further from your amp and you will hear the total delay caused by the sound needing time to reach you. (While the wireless is working at the speed of light, the audio coming to you from your amp still has to obey the speed of sound.)

I also wouldn't consider any kind of wireless for mic'ing any kind of amp, drums, etc. Wired is still the best choice there. If it doesn't move regularly, or won't benefit from the added ability to move, wired is best.

Also on guitar I firmly believe that the lack of a cord, especially on passive pickups, is noticeable. Bass and vocals, not so much. Just about anyone will hear a difference on guitar. Whether that difference is good or bad is up to you.


I've had exposure to:

Vocal:
Sennheiser Evo G3 100 (e835 handheld mic) ($599): Excellent for an analog voice system. The only way you could tell the difference between the wireless e835 and the wired e835 was to run away from the stage... If the mic was ripped out of your hand when you ran out of cord, you had the wired one.

Shure PGX24 (SM58 handheld mic) ($300-$400): Crap like most of Shure's analog wireless mics in the sub-$999 range. Very prone to interference (this was before digital TV too), dead-sounding tone. I'd suffer through any kind of wired nightmare to NOT use this one again.


Instrument:
Really old Nady 75Mhz(?) wireless ($65): not too bad for bass, but a real tone sucker overall. This is typical of just about any sub-$100 wireless though.

X2 XDR-95 and XDR-1 ($200-$300): First really popular digital wireless system. Actually had a bit of built in high roll-off that was meant to simulate a cable but could be defeated by a TRS cable. Without the roll-off the thing was flat 20hz to 16khz.

Line 6 G50 ($300-$350): Another excellent digital wireless. They put the "cable tone" thing in an easy to get place. All this does is act as a variable low-pass filter to simulate cables of different lengths. With it wide open it was flat 20hz-20khz (my Audio Control SA-3050A only does 20-20k). With cable tone all the way on (longest cable setting) it was topping out around 11khz. This is still my only choice for instrument wireless after 5-6 years now. I can't really tell a difference between my good cables and this wireless on my bass.

[Gordo]

The people who eschew wireless probably had a bad experience many years ago. In the last 5-10 years wireless has gotten much better. Especially the digital-based wireless units.

That said, don't think for a second that a sub-$150 new wireless is going to be anything but "acceptable", even now days. I think the only good one in the sub-$250 market is the digital line 6 G30.

Some people claim that digital wireless adds so much latency it is impossible to use. The actual latency added to your signal path by the Line 6 wireless is 4ms. Or in audio terms it is standing about 4-5 feet further from your amp. I've never had an issue with this. (digital wireless requires the analog signal to be converted to digital at one end and reconverted to analog at the other and this takes about 4ms)

I think this came about because when you have wireless, you can go further from your amp and you will hear the total delay caused by the sound needing time to reach you. (While the wireless is working at the speed of light, the audio coming to you from your amp still has to obey the speed of sound.)

I also wouldn't consider any kind of wireless for mic'ing any kind of amp, drums, etc. Wired is still the best choice there. If it doesn't move regularly, or won't benefit from the added ability to move, wired is best.

Also on guitar I firmly believe that the lack of a cord, especially on passive pickups, is noticeable. Bass and vocals, not so much. Just about anyone will hear a difference on guitar. Whether that difference is good or bad is up to you.


I've had exposure to:

Vocal:
Sennheiser Evo G3 100 (e835 handheld mic) ($599): Excellent for an analog voice system. The only way you could tell the difference between the wireless e835 and the wired e835 was to run away from the stage... If the mic was ripped out of your hand when you ran out of cord, you had the wired one.

Shure PGX24 (SM58 handheld mic) ($300-$400): Crap like most of Shure's analog wireless mics in the sub-$999 range. Very prone to interference (this was before digital TV too), dead-sounding tone. I'd suffer through any kind of wired nightmare to NOT use this one again.


Instrument:
Really old Nady 75Mhz(?) wireless ($65): not too bad for bass, but a real tone sucker overall. This is typical of just about any sub-$100 wireless though.

X2 XDR-95 and XDR-1 ($200-$300): First really popular digital wireless system. Actually had a bit of built in high roll-off that was meant to simulate a cable but could be defeated by a TRS cable. Without the roll-off the thing was flat 20hz to 16khz.

Line 6 G50 ($300-$350): Another excellent digital wireless. They put the "cable tone" thing in an easy to get place. All this does is act as a variable low-pass filter to simulate cables of different lengths. With it wide open it was flat 20hz-20khz (my Audio Control SA-3050A only does 20-20k). With cable tone all the way on (longest cable setting) it was topping out around 11khz. This is still my only choice for instrument wireless after 5-6 years now. I can't really tell a difference between my good cables and this wireless on my bass.

The Line 6 G50 is the wireless I am using on my bass. However when it comes to wireless tone loss I have never really noticed it on guitar before, probably because a lot of guitar players use a lot of distortion, overdrive, flanger, delay, chorus, reverb or other effect/s that cover up the loss of tone. To me the best tone still comes when a guitar player has nothing between his guitar and a decent tube amp except for the cord. Anyhow, bass is where I usually hear the frequency loss, especially in the low end. The older wirelesses are nightmares to be sure, but with the new wirelesses, especially when considering all the other noise coming from a live stage and from the venue, you aren't going to notice an appreciable difference in frequency response regardless of the instrument you play.

[JackANSI]

The Line 6 G50 is the wireless I am using on my bass. However when it comes to wireless tone loss I have never really noticed it on guitar before, probably because a lot of guitar players use a lot of distortion, overdrive, flanger, delay, chorus, reverb or other effect/s that cover up the loss of tone. To me the best tone still comes when a guitar player has nothing between his guitar and a decent tube amp except for the cord. Anyhow, bass is where I usually hear the frequency loss, especially in the low end. The older wirelesses are nightmares to be sure, but with the new wirelesses, especially when considering all the other noise coming from a live stage and from the venue, you aren't going to notice an appreciable difference in frequency response regardless of the instrument you play.

I've noticed zero change on bass, at least when I use a good patch cable after the receiver.

Here is a video I did real quick some time ago with a G50:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqapgDHnd8

Each vertical LED "step" is at most 0.8db (somewhere between 0.3 and 0.8). As you can see there is no loss at any frequency. The display showed the same output either through the wireless or just my jumper cable in a separate test. I also measured no difference in the noise floor between a 12' cable and the G50 into an Avalon U5 then into a PreSonus FP10 in a previous test.

I hear a change when I hear a guitar. There is a bit more harmonic content that previously was being lost. It really comes through with very sharp distortion or mid freq heavy overdrive especially on a non-tube amp. It can make a guitar sound (I guess to me): louder, over present in the mix, and more overbearing or annoying. Could also be the source for other people "hearing" a loss of lows or mids.

Generally though, yes, no one is going to care about frequency response in your average bar. If you sound good with a wire, you will more than likely sound good wireless (given it is a quality wireless). But that is no excuse not to try for the best audio signal you possibly can get. IME a better audio signal equals predicability and repeatability. (and no sound guy can add back in what has already been lost in the signal chain before he gets it)

[Gordo]

You're right, you should strive to get the best possible tone you can get. I have been playing music and doing sound professionally since 1978, got a few people on my resume in that time that I have mixed. In the best of all possible worlds I would prefer that a player of guitar or bass would play on a cord or a combination of cords that measures no more than 18' 6", however it's never a perfect world and things don't work out in the best way all the time. That being said, playing on a wireless, whether you play bass, guitar, or sing does create a lot of freedom of movement and no cord tangled up around your feet (yes I have almost knocked over a stack or two in my day by tripping over cords). Like I said, the new digital wirelesses are far superior to what I started out with. My first wireless unit was a Nady that used FM broadcast band and came with a transmitter and a radio receiver that plugged into my amp. What a dinosaur! But I digress. As a soundman, as long as a guitar player gives me a good tone out of his speakers, I can mic it and make it listenable and very seldom do I tinker with the tone I am given except to compensate for the dynamics of the microphone and the PA system.

[lonewolf]

Stay away from the AKG digital DMS70 stuff. It is drop out prone and like most digital wireless, eats batteries like gummy bears.

I don't use wireless much anymore, so I got a single channel AKG WMS40 mini analog system to have around for my guitar.

This system is actually very good with full frequency response and very little compression...and one AA battery lasts for like a whole day. I like it better than the Shure, Sennheiser, Nady (when they were were making pro stuff), EV and Audio Technica sub-$500 stuff that I have used in the past.

I'm not going to bother spending big $ on digital again until they add wireless power for the transmitters.