Why I like Glenn Beck

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:53 pm

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
So why isn't anyone, any conservative, out there with tea bag parties and vocal protests against Medicare ?
Please read a post before you respond with your spin. I did not say Medicare anywhere in my post.

Oh, BTW, for the record, I am against Medicare, Medicaid and Social security.

We ALL know EVERYTHING you're against. No need to keep repeating yourself.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:00 pm

BTW Rob...

...can we practice at your place on Tuesday ?

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:01 pm

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote: Out of context Rush. Typical
Government abuse is government abuse. Do you think there is no abuse by this vastly over bloated government.?
The out of context quote you took from one of my posts explains my opinion.

How is this out of context? You said the govt would not abuse health care insurance. I am making the point that your are naively foolish to believe that govt would not abuse this program or any other.

Just because you love government programs and bureaucrats does not mean that they are above abuse.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:25 pm

Hawk wrote:Northern Cambria just got hit hard by the EPA for doing a poor job. I'd say they are a hell of a lot more than passive.

That was the state EPA. The levels weren't high enough to warrant federal action.

Hawk wrote:Bridges: Are you saying you want MORE oversight by the government ? Are you saying that the PRIVATE contractor is not to be trusted ? Well, that's exactly what you said. I agree with you.

I definitely want them to do quality control when they decide to spend tax money on infrastructure...or anything else for that matter. They need to verify that the product is to specification.

I don't blindly trust or distrust private contractors, but because of graft and kickbacks and cronyism, I don't trust the government to make a good choice of private contractors or to follow up on their products.

Hawk wrote:Ok, you trust the insurance cooperate exec who's bottom line is only money, with your health (The private enterprise system you don't trust to build bridges without cutting corners).
I'll trust someone hired by the government who's job is my health care.

I am comfortable with a private insurance company who has a good reputation AND is under a minimum of government regulation. I would like to see a no drop rule and a no pre-existing conditions rule, among a few other things. At present, they don't have authority to make such rules.

Did you know that health insurance is not even under the jurisdiction of the federal government? Presently, its the domain of the states. Remember the incremental steps I mentioned? Don't you think that maybe these morons in DC should first establish federal jurisdiction over health insurance and set up a basic regulatory structure? A nice, clearcut piece of legislation that will set the stage for logical, commonsense reform?

Hawk wrote:I'll trust someone hired by the government who's job is my health care.

Stop it. You're scaring me.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:48 pm

slackin@dabass wrote:bill, the state government regulates your drinking water. not the federal. i trust my state to make better choices than my federal government.

Why?--->JMS

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:05 pm

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Government abuse is government abuse. Do you think there is no abuse by this vastly over bloated government.?
The out of context quote you took from one of my posts explains my opinion.
How is this out of context? You said the govt would not abuse health care insurance. I am making the point that your are naively foolish to believe that govt would not abuse this program or any other.

Just because you love government programs and bureaucrats does not mean that they are above abuse.

As I previously stated, We ALL know EVERYTHING you're against. We also know your paranoia - along with the desire to spread paranoia - related to anyone in government.

The Patriot act would be easy to abuse without anyone knowing it was being abused.

I trust the people whoare government workers and run Medicare. I would trust a public option. You don't have to.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:36 am

Hawk, you are paranoid when the government is not running everything.

I will trust the capitalist system and the Constitution, which has absolutely no mention of government run health care.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:44 am

undercoverjoe wrote:Hawk, you are paranoid when the government is not running everything.

I will trust the capitalist system and the Constitution, which has absolutely no mention of government run health care.

Not at all. Being self employed I am a proud member of the capitalistic society.

I think both government and private enterprise need oversight. Simple.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:46 am

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:Hawk, you are paranoid when the government is not running everything.

I will trust the capitalist system and the Constitution, which has absolutely no mention of government run health care.
Not at all. Being self employed I am a proud member of the capitalistic society.

I think both government and private enterprise need oversight. Simple.

OK, who then is overseeing you, and how are they making sure you are not ripping off your customers and not polluting the surrounding water shed?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:53 am

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:Hawk, you are paranoid when the government is not running everything.

I will trust the capitalist system and the Constitution, which has absolutely no mention of government run health care.
Not at all. Being self employed I am a proud member of the capitalistic society.

I think both government and private enterprise need oversight. Simple.
OK, who then is overseeing you, and how are they making sure you are not ripping off your customers and not polluting the surrounding water shed?

In my line of work, I have no way to pollute the water shed. I think they realize that, so they haven't checked.

I do have to collect sales tax. They follow me very closely on that. Never audited yet, but I make damn sure my records are impeccable.

I am registered with the Guild which means I did have to pass tests. I WISHED there was licensing involved to weed out the "I taught myself" hacks. In other words, I would LOVE government oversight.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:57 am

Hawk wrote: I would LOVE government oversight.

Your epitaph.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:59 am

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote: I would LOVE government oversight.
Your epitaph.

It's out of context (Limbaughish) again. But I could live (Ahh, in eternity) with that.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:08 am

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote: I would LOVE government oversight.
Your epitaph.
It's out of context (Limbaughish) again. But I could live (Ahh, in eternity) with that.

As Lonewolf posted the other day, you are starting to scare me too.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:08 am

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: Your epitaph.
It's out of context (Limbaughish) again. But I could live (Ahh, in eternity) with that.
As Lonewolf posted the other day, you are starting to scare me too.

paranoidjoe

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:59 am

I am not really scared so much as curious.

Anyone ever been to school? Does anyone have any stories about bullies or nerds or cheerleaders? Do you remember in school sometimes it seemed like some people just got picked on.

I am a capitalist by nature. Like I said before, we home school our kids, I am self employed and I don't really need any government programs to help me.

That is not where the story ends though. I am able to do just fine but does that mean that everyone is good? Of course not. Seems more and more like the vast majority of people need some kind of help just to get by. Well on the playground most just watched and moved away. Very few kids stepped up to the plate and defended someone who could not defend them-self.

Here we are again, bigger playground but the human condition still exists. Many people are fine and don't really need anything from government. But a huge amount of people do. Those are the ones who need government over sight.

So do we count on the kindness of mankind to help those who are in need? Or do we create government programs that are designed to help them?

We are evenly split on;

GOP - Every man for himself

LIB - I want to help everyone

Does it really come to that simple of an Epitaph?

PStl · Post by **PStl** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:03 pm

Ding dong,
the Czar is gone,
the Czar is gone, the Czar is gone.

Ding dong,
the Green Job Czar is gone!

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Questioning the motives of government is not being paranoid, it's called critical thinking--and it's the DUTY of EVERY CITIZEN in a free society!

Don't we all still agree that absolute power corrupts absolutely? When you give government or business the final say without any checks and balances you have problems. It's foolish to put all your eggs in one basket or all your trust in one societal institution.

I'm shocked to see that some here put so much blind faith in our government. Even if you look at local government, you see back scratching and nepotism...the list goes on and on. You know that it gets progressively worse at the state and later federal levels.

Our legal system is a perfect example. The wealthy have a ticket to ride and the poor go straight to jail (do not pass go, do not collect $200.) No matter how great the system is, if those running it are corrupt, the system fails. This is evidenced in just about every government run program in our society. Do you really think health care will be any different?

I think some epitaphs here should read, "I suckle at the teat of big government," or maybe, "I am a lemming."

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:00 pm

Very astute post, torn. For whatever reason, there are still bullies who think freedom must be filtered through them, through their ideas, or it's not "freedom." I deal with them the exact same way I did in school. Simply deny them any power at all. In this case, I voted, and all the bullies now are crying over in their corner of the playground..."Boo-hoo, well kickball is socialist, anyway!"

As for govt oversight, joe's current crisis aside, there MUST be oversight of capitalism. MUST. Does everyone fully understand what I'm saying here? There must be oversight of business, especially big business.
Capitalism, despite the current neocon media onslaught, IS NOT A PERFECT SYSTEM. Right-wingers want everything they touch to be perfect (the Constitution, healthcare system, the Bible, conservatism itself,etc.) but anything devised by humans will have flaws. Capitalism has the same exact major flaw that communism does: human greed. Everyone feels they deserve a little (or a lot) more than the next guy, and can come up with any number of reasons why. Greed is what makes communists and capitalists corrupt precisely alike. Communism says put everyone's wealth in a big pile and share equally, but you're not equal. Capitalism says let wealthy people disperse wealth to those who deserve it, but you don't deserve it.
Name one industry that was "deregulated" and whose end result was lower costs for consumers. The Telecommunications Act was supposed to cut our cable bills in half, and the increased competition would result in 500 channels. We did get 20 more channels... and my bill tripled. My natural gas bill doubled after deregulation. Soon, my electric bill will go up 70%, when caps are lifted. The breakup of Ma Bell resulted in massive increases before cellphones and VOiP overtook the telephone industry. The point is, if you give capitalistic greed an inch, it will take a mile, because it will then have the power to do so.
If the Constitution were a perfect document, there'd be no amendments. If there was only one meaning to the Bible, we'd all be going to one church. If capitalism was a perfect system, there'd be no welfare for right-wingers to complain about.--->JMS

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:06 pm

Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote: It's out of context (Limbaughish) again. But I could live (Ahh, in eternity) with that.
As Lonewolf posted the other day, you are starting to scare me too.
paranoidjoe

Oh duh, paranoidhawk. Wow, what a come back.

Bill, you are paranoid if the government is not regulating everything in your life. You are afraid to grow a pair, and stand up on your own two legs. Need that nanny state to tell you what to do, where to go, what to eat........

We started this country to get away from government ruling every part of our lives. Go back to England and bow to the Queen if that will make your feel secure.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:24 pm

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote: As Lonewolf posted the other day, you are starting to scare me too.
paranoidjoe
Oh duh, paranoidhawk. Wow, what a come back.

Bill, you are paranoid if the government is not regulating everything in your life. You are afraid to grow a pair, and stand up on your own two legs. Need that nanny state to tell you what to do, where to go, what to eat........

We started this country to get away from government ruling every part of our lives. Go back to England and bow to the Queen if that will make your feel secure.

I'm hardly afraid. I take good care of my family. Always have. When will you get it (or stop ignoring it) that I care about everyone else.

Seems to me "No taxation without representation:" was the biggest battle cry. Very likely if the colonies had colonists put into the system of the England government, some to represent them, there may never had been a revolution.

Escaping Religious persecution was another big reason.

Go to Russia if you want everyone to have a job.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:48 pm

Hawk wrote:
Escaping Religious persecution was another big reason.

Go to Russia if you want everyone to have a job.

Little mixed up on your history there. Escaping religious persecution was the 1600's, first by the Pilgrims.

The revolution was over non representation of a government, in the late 1700's.

Did I anywhere in a post ever mention that everyone should have a job?

If you do not want a job, that is your freedom. Just do not come to me for food, shelter or health care if you do not try to support yourself.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:22 am

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
Escaping Religious persecution was another big reason.

Go to Russia if you want everyone to have a job.
Little mixed up on your history there. Escaping religious persecution was the 1600's, first by the Pilgrims.

The revolution was over non representation of a government, in the late 1700's.

Did I anywhere in a post ever mention that everyone should have a job?

If you do not want a job, that is your freedom. Just do not come to me for food, shelter or health care if you do not try to support yourself.

No, outofcontextjoe. Seems to me I wrote for you to read, "No taxation without representation". Oh , I did, huh, did you miss it ?

Jobs: No you didn't. You do seem to imply (tell me if I'm wrong) that if one does not work it's his problem. I just figured you thought everyone should have a job. In Russia, there is no unemployment. Hence my inference.

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Why I like Glenn Beck

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