Epi Pauls

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:57 pm

I plugged it in anyway, and it really sounded good! For crap pickups, it wasn't bad at all. Very comparable to my Gibson. And yeah, Fedex has been known to be just a tad reckless with packages at times. Not that I ever do it, mind you

. I dunno why my band in general is continuing to deal with the Friend. This is about the 4th time this year we've been hosed in some way. Anyone dealt with Sweetwater? The catalog really prides themselves on how personal they are.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:00 pm

I used to get their catalogs, but that's been a while ago. I go through Music123 for all of my new purchases, and I haven't had a problem yet.

Mostly it's another gamble I prefer to do: buy used from ebay.

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:31 pm

Music 123 is owned by/connected with The Friend. I just recently had problems with an order with them as well. Took nearly a month to receive the items. They screwed up the order in the first place (and admitted they did this) but it still took them a month to remedy?

They also agreed to send the items out via 2 day express shipping at no cost (after
I called to complain about the time it took already) and lo and behold .....
they still took 4 business days to arrive. I'm not likely to deal with them again.

Post by **Ron** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:08 pm

I don't know how you guys can buy a guitar that you've never held in your hands. Would you buy a car that you've never driven?

I've always found that no matter how consistent a guitar manufacturer tries to make their product, in any given shipment of instruments there are golden ones that just feel better in your hands.

Support your local music stores. You may pay a little more, but you'll be better off in the end.

DrumAndDestroy · Post by **DrumAndDestroy** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:20 pm

Ron wrote:Support your local music stores. You may pay a little more, but you'll be better off in the end.

Agreed...better yet, have Joe (MetalChurch) build you one.

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:37 pm

In the case of guitars, I would love to buy locally, but.........
It boils down to dollars and cents ( as I'm sure is the case with most of us). The local stores (unfortunately) add their mark up and then you tack on sales tax.
For example......

Local : $1500 guitar + tax = $1590

Online : $1500 guitar - discount = average approx. $1425 and no sales tax
comes out to $1425 with most places shipping free now days.

Savings = $165

This is a lot to consider for your average buyer, and let's face it most people want to save $. I wish it weren't the case, but it is reality. Also, salesmen do like (and deserve) their commission. No intent to offend anyone.

JMHO

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:49 pm

I'd also love to buy locally more often, and I do whenever I can. But for me, most local stores do not carry equipment that I'd be interested in. I'd love to see a local Eden or a local Aguilar dealer for bass equipment, but I don't know any around here. If I want to buy a Warwick from a store, I'd I have to go to Pianos and Stuff in Pittsburgh. I understand the music stores' standpoint; they aren't going to move a lot of high ticket items in a local market that is generally made up of beginners. The downside is that gigging musicians are going to want more choices for higher end gear than just MIA Fenders and lower-grade Gibsons.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:33 pm

Ron, I agree that you should never buy a guitar or bass without knowing the product.

I've never bought something without playing it somewhere first. I mainly try to find all of the parts that I need and build my own as opposed to buying new.

I've only bought 3 new guitars and 2 of them were bought locally, which I would rather do. However, as Paul said, most times the stores around here only carry the meat and potatoes, and mostly not what more experienced players are looking for.

There's great points on either side, so there's really no right or wrong to me, it just boils down to what the individual wants.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:09 pm

One of the tough things about buying in a store, especially one with a big selection, is that the guitars are rarely in "player's shape". You get a lot of rusty strings and mediocre factory setups. No fault of the store - that's a lot of guitars to maintain. But it makes it hard to tell if a particular guitar has any mojo to it.

That's one of the nice things about a little shop like Guitars 'N Stuff - the inventory is small enough that the guitars do get pampered. Those places are few and far between anymore, though.

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:17 pm

I also try to buy regular or small ticket items locally. I also agree that it is hard for local stores to carry the inventory, etc. Jimi makes a good point about setups, etc. in shops. Selection always comes into play. There are limitations and problems to be encountered from either side (local or
mail/online order). I guess each individual has to decide which route they want to go. I've bought guitars both ways, and had good and bad experiences from both angles.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Ya, I think everyone would certainly rather support their local music store. But, there's
a cost factor that has to be considered, so the M.F.'s, zzSounds, etc, where there's
the option to get something good at a cheaper price become a viable option.

I've never bought a guitar online. But, if I were looking and the price difference was big
enough, and I needed something, I'd have to consider it. Have a family, house payments,
car payments, the usual life expenses, you have to cognizant of what you spend where.

I do feel for the local shops that have to compete with that and don't envy the position it
puts them in. At the same time, it does make good customer service a necessity. Been
to many a place where the person(s) working have quite the freakin' attitude but were the
only option available for whatever you were trying to find (Ahem...Music Mart in the late
80s/Early 90s, Ahem).

Watching this veer WAY off topic from the original post...

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:34 pm

Watching this veer way off original topic. I agree. (sorry)

BTW ....... I really like my Epi Les Paul Classic.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:06 pm

skipisode wrote: BTW ....... I really like my Epi Les Paul Classic.

Nice. Very suave. See what Skip did there? RIGHT back on with one little line.
Smmoooooth. Man's a pro.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:41 pm

Jimi Hatt wrote:One of the tough things about buying in a store, especially one with a big selection, is that the guitars are rarely in "player's shape". You get a lot of rusty strings and mediocre factory setups. No fault of the store - that's a lot of guitars to maintain. But it makes it hard to tell if a particular guitar has any mojo to it.

Very good points, Gregster. Strings are incredibly important to how an instrument sounds, and an old set can make a $1500 instrument sound like a $150 instrument. That's something that can suck for a store when a guitar or bass has been hanging for a long time. After everyone's sweaty hands have been on it, the strings lose their crispness and focus. It's really difficult to tell if you're playing an instrument that resonates well and has good electronics when the strings are five months old.

Also +1 on Guitars 'n Stuff. Terry's always been very competitively priced, IMO, but even so, I would be more than willing to pay a few dollars more to buy a piece of equipment off of him. He's not out to screw anyone over, and it's good to buy equipment off of someone who knows what they are talking about, unlike a lot of the Guitar Center jugheads who think they know equipment because they play in a garage band (not saying everyone at large music retail chains are like that, but everyone knows what clueless idiots that streotype refers to). LOL

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:46 pm

VENTGtr wrote:Been
to many a place where the person(s) working have quite the freakin' attitude but were the
only option available for whatever you were trying to find (Ahem...Music Mart in the late
80s/Early 90s, Ahem).

I haven't been in Musicmart in ages, but I've always been treated well there. I do notice a certain air about some of the shops in State College. I WILL NOT step foot in Rainbow Music ever again. Sorry, but I don't care for the attitude of the staff there. I do deal with Robert M. Sides quite a bit in State College. The staff's always been professional there, and they are more than accomodating with letting you try out their instruments. Plus, I saw a girl I went to high school working there today when I went in to buy strings and a cord.

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:15 am

The ONLY reason I went online was because my local stores did not carry the guitar I wanted. Merge asked why I didn't get a PRS se. I wanted one of them, but I wanted a back-up Paul more. The closest place to me is a 2 hour trip to the GC in Monroeville or Baltimore. Online was about a 3 minute trip.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:17 pm

In the online vs. brick-and-mortar shop debate, I think it bears mentioning that most faults are not exclusively the shops'. For instance, if a $250 guitar doesn't have a clean, sweet setup, for us to take the time to do so costs money... on an item we're already not making as much of a profit as you'd think. Obviously, I'm not going to tell you how much we pay for that guitar (I specifically DON'T want to know, that makes salespeople "sharky"), but the Friend's buying power and sales volume cut the points on each piece waaaay down. Somehow, we still at least match prices on most guitars. Then there's a minimum stock requirement for most major manufacturers... believe me, you could buy a VERY nice house for what some companies want you to invest... which means you have a LOT of guitars to set-up. Now add in players' tastes. Felix and Tommy Brown both play Strats, and neither would be able to wrench a single song out of the other's guitar, they're like night and day.
Also, if a guitar is particularly attractive to the younger crowd, say, a Dimebag Tribute model Dean, it has every pimple-faced kid in a hundred miles asking to play it. I'm very protective, but I can't keep a kid from playing it, because... sometimes... they buy one. And even if they don't, they're tomorrow's pro, so I have to treat them well.

On lower-priced guitars, ALWAYS try before you buy. This holiday season, we had some Dean Vendetta's for $140. I didn't expect much for a guitar that inexpensive, but damn, these played so nice, and the fit & finish was way above the norm for the price point, a real hidden treasure. However, a similarly-priced Dean model sitting next to it on the rack... eh, okay for a beginner. Not terrible, but not close to the Vendetta. It happens all the time now, as the quality of the cheap imports skyrockets. My theory for the recent quality bump is that much of the factory tooling we had here in the US went overseas with our jobs. Technology like CNC machines also helps exponentially.
Again, I really like the Squiers and Epi's, but you gotta do your homework.----->JMS

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:56 pm

We always hear things from the musician's perspective, it was nice to hear the other side of the story.
Great post Johnny! You're a pretty good musician as well!

Technology and manufacturing have made leaps and bounds from where they were. There's so many affordable guitars with quality that just should not be as good as it is. It's almost like, what's the catch?
I think there would be alot more people buying them save for the fact the the logo doesn't say Fender or Gibson.

stratobastard, are they replacing the guitar for you, or just repairing it?
Hopefully it goes smoothly for you and they hold up on their end of things.

Kinda makes you wish that you would have just drove the 3 hours huh?

Which one did you get? Is it the Epiphone Les Paul Standard?

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:37 pm

I definitely agree with the point about these import guitars and basses being very nice instruments. I remember my dad always told me that when he was growing up, when you bought a cheap guitar, you got a CHEAP guitar. That's definitely not the case anymore. After buying the bass, the hardshell case, and dropping a set of Bartolinis in it, I have about $300 in my SX Jazz copy. I'd put it up against just about any MIM Fender I've played. It still doesn't touch my Carvin LB (there's about a thousand dollar difference between the basses though), but the SX is a very giggable bass; and if I had a gig that I needed a traditional J-bass sound for, it's what I'd be bringing along. Again, the Squier J that Johnny hooked me up with is an incredible instrument for the money. BTW, I've decided that I want to upgrade the pickups with EMGs. It's an already bright and modern sounding bass (think Marcus Miller on steriods), so I think that I'll just make it a more quality modern sound with EMGs instead of going darker with the Barts.

I really need to quit playing the Schecter Stilletos everytime I walk into a music store. They're killer instruments!!! They easily run with anything I've playing in the $1000 - $1200 range. Anyone want to sell a five string Stiletto? I'm looking primarily for a Custom or a Studio.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:26 pm

bassist_25 wrote: I haven't been in Musicmart in ages, but I've always been treated well there.

Ya, this was back a while ago, when there was M.M. and George's. MusicMart was
pretty lousy as far as Customer Service. I go there every once in a while and it
seems fine now.

I know people have some issues with Rainbow, and I understand why, but that's
usually where I go for stuff. Alley Cats fine and for amp repairs, you can't beat
Sarge there. Guitar problems, Mark Chaplin.

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:36 pm

They are outright replacing it. I'm sure you can pick up my cracked guitar on the "scratch and dent" section of the Friend's website next week for about $40 bucks off! It was the Epi Standard for $400. The standard PLUS has the fake flame for another $100. I'm not terribly concerned with the stunning beauty of this guitar, so long as it plays half decent.

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:10 pm

When will you have the new Epi??

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:07 am

After two weeks of waiting, it's finally here. Not a scratch on it. I'm digging it. Haven't really dug into it yet, though. Any recommendations on replacement P/Us?

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:10 am

I should clarify I'm used to the Gibson LP Classic with 496R neck and 500T bridge. Those pickups were really sweet to me. But I'm using through the same rig I play my strat through, and I've got Duncan Hot Rails neck and bridge in that. I wanna say the output of those Duncans is about 800 milliohms. HOT. Crazy HOT. Will not EVER get truly clean HOT.

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:39 am

I would probably replace the Epi's pickups with the same pickups you have in that LP.