Gambling?

shredder138 · Post by **shredder138** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:30 pm

Just wondering if anyone else here is into poker. I enjoy playing in the free World TavernPoker here in Altoona, and a little online. Anyone else partake, any thoughts on the legality issues of it?

JakeWilliams · Post by **JakeWilliams** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:39 pm

I've played everywhere from World Tavern Poker locally to the European Poker Tour in Baden, Austria... I used to play on-line a lot, but since have cut back considerably. I've also got the personal e-mail of Bob Ciaffone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ciaffone) and debated legal issues with him directly, just for fun.

I guess what I'm saying is that I used to be addicted to poker, and I put a lot of time into learning as much about poker and online gambling in general, so I do have some personal insights that might give you the info you are looking for.

World Tavern Poker is 100% legal in the entire US because they do not take an entry fee.

The only online gambling site that I'm aware of that is completely legal is http://www.clubwpt.com/. And the only reason it's legal is because they don't take wagers. You pay $20/month for the service (play as much or as little as you want) and can win money from a pre-established prize pool. This money comes from the monthly user subscription fees - but because it's not tied to the buy in of the tournament itself, it's not considered "gambling".

On-line poker is still not "quite" legal in the US - but it's not specifically illegal. Bush made it harder for US citizens to play when he signed a bill in 2007 (attached to the "Safe Port/Harbor Bill") that made it illegal for Online/Internet Gambling sites to take wagers from US citizens.

http://vegasclick.com/online/legal.html

However, online poker players can easily collude and cheat - and the advantage that cheating teams of players can have at a table is tremendous.

Site's have no reason to cheat - and have a vested interest in keeping the game clean. However, there are methods that teams of cheaters can use and never get caught. I never joined up with a cheating team - but I personally know of teams from PA that collude online for tens of thousands of dollars a month.

I actually documented results over the course of several years and saw enough "anomolies" that I don't play on-line for real money anymore. No matter how good you are - eventually, you will run into a team, and even if the team is caught by the site - the money is not returned to the players it was stolen from.

Anything else you want to know, just ask.

shredder138 · Post by **shredder138** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:36 am

Yeah, I knew the free stuff is legal.

It sounds like you've played a bit, any success in the EPT? Did you get there on a sattelite?

JakeWilliams · Post by **JakeWilliams** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:11 am

shredder138 wrote:Yeah, I knew the free stuff is legal.

It sounds like you've played a bit, any success in the EPT? Did you get there on a sattelite?

To get there, I won a 500 person Freeroll semi-qualifing tournament. Then, in the qualifier there were 227 people (who all won their seats from semi qualifiers, so obviously they were "better players") and I won that too! That won me the $5000 seat in the EPT and $1000 spending cash to get there.

If you want to read more, you'll have to read about it at PokerStars Blog

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/2005/10/e ... -ends.html

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/2005/10/e ... ritty.html

JakeWilliams · Post by **JakeWilliams** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:48 am

shredder138 wrote:...

Do you have any more specific questions? I would be happy to help. I'm actually much more qualified to give poker advice than to answer anything about music...lol.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:12 am

We just got back into our place the Buzztime Entertainment system and along with trivia, it includes Texas Holdem' Poker. Up to ten players can play and its been a hit with our customers. We are thinking of starting up a Texas Holdem Night on Wednesdays where you can win a prize for playing.

There were two very recent court rulings on Texas Holdem in Pennsylvania and the question on if its gambling or not. One PA court indicated that it was not gambling because it was more skill than chance. Another court went the other direction. If its determined to be skill, then all bets are off and you will be able to play Texas Holdem anywhere. Legally.

BTW...I always keep a set of cards and chips behind the bar in case a group comes in and wants to play.

JakeWilliams · Post by **JakeWilliams** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:47 am

Lisa wrote:One PA court indicated that it was not gambling because it was more skill than chance.

I didn't hear that? Do you have a link to any articles about it? If that actually happens, I just might start liking living in PA again!

All our $$$ is going to the few states where it's legal, and that's not cool. I mean, honestly, why don't all states make it legal - just so they can tax it?

Oh well, a guy can dream, can't he?

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:58 am

I play on Absolute Poker (www.absolutepoker.net) about 20-25 hours a week. I do it for fun, and also to try and see as many cards as I can. My best ever experience was finishing second in a WSOP Freeroll out of 1000 people. The winner? Mike "The Grinder" Mizrachi. Knowing that I finished second to him was pretty cool, although he busted my pocket Jacks. But there's no shame in losing to a pro. I enjoy the game. Pet Peeve? Getting to a table where there's no action besides "ALL IN". That's not how poker is played.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:02 pm

Here's one http://www.columbiapa.org/courts/opinio ... -12-09.pdf

Here is another that gives information on both cases

http://www.pokerpages.com/poker-news/ne ... -31449.htm