advantage/disadvantage for rackmount vs heads /combo?

rickster · Post by **rickster** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:15 am

I've noticed that the rack gear seems to be all the rage on this board.Is there something better about rack mounted guitar preamps vs a combo amplifier or a head and a cabinet?

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:36 am

I have always preferred a separate head and cabinet for my bass rig. That way, if one part is in the shop, I only need to replace that piece to play . This is happening to me right now. My head has been in the shop for six weeks waiting for a part and I am using a loaner amp with my speaker cabinet.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:19 am

It depends on what you need.

If you use basically one sound all night, you need a good amp.

If you only use 2 or 3 (or even 4 in a few cases) basic preamp sounds without a lot of fx switching, then you would probably be better off with a good channel switching amp.

If you use 4 or more basic preamp sounds and a lot of fx switching, you should probably consider racking up.

If you decide you need an amp, you should decide if you need a stage prop like a half-stack or just a portable little combo that gets the job done.

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:29 am

moxham123 wrote: This is happening to me right now. My head has been in the shop for six weeks waiting for a part and I am using a loaner amp with my speaker cabinet.

Sounds like you take your stuff to Music Haven, Duaine.lol

slackin@dabass · Post by **slackin@dabass** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:23 am

lonewolf wrote:It depends on what you need.

If you use basically one sound all night, you need a good amp.

If you only use 2 or 3 (or even 4 in a few cases) basic preamp sounds without a lot of fx switching, then you would probably be better off with a good channel switching amp.

If you use 4 or more basic preamp sounds and a lot of fx switching, you should probably consider racking up.

If you decide you need an amp, you should decide if you need a stage prop like a half-stack or just a portable little combo that gets the job done.

or you could get a line 6 amp and spend an arm and a leg for very convincing digital modeling and effects. but it's worth it.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:43 pm

As with most of this type of stuff, it's, for the most part, just personal preference.

With a rack, you can more easily mix and match. If there's a particular preamp you
like, and another power amp you prefer, it's easy to swap things in and out. Plus, can
run whatever type of processor in there (A rack delay, chorus, or a multi-processor,
or whatever else, etc.).

With a separate head, you can more readily use different cabs (A 1x12 here, a 4x12
there, whatever).

A combo, you can still swap out speakers but you kind of have what you have (Of
course, you could run an extension speaker, if need be, but still).

You can still run a rack of effects if you want...just more stuff.

A lot of it is just what you like. If you prefer a switching system of some kind rather
than a bunch of pedals on the floor, rack stuff is nice.

I like a lot of junk sitting there on the floor in front of me. Rob runs a rack setup for
his bass stuff. There are certainly times when I envy the convenience he seems to have.
PLUS. all the bright, shiny lights going looks really cool.

For pure, absolute convenience, a lot of sound options, and relatively low cost, a nice
choice is a floor processor with good models (I like Boss GT-8, and have heard the
GT-10s are nice, and Line 6 makes some good stuff. Don't know much about the others...
though Vox...and I think someone else, actually use preamp tubes in their floor processors)
then into a solid state amp. A tube amp with something simulating a tube amp CAN end
up with a muddy result. You want clarity from the amp (Can even just run from the floor
processor into a power amp).

This can give you a lot of options quickly, you don't have to worry about the maintenance
of tube amps, there are some very nice S.S. amps that don't cost a ton (H&K, Line 6, Orange)
and, you can find some good speaker options that don't colour your sound a lot (Eminence
has some made specifically for use modeling amps...I like Ems and Fane...so I have a bias.
I'm sure Celestion, etc. have them as well).

The only thing with any of these options is how they sound to you, etc. Again, preference.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:02 pm

VENTGtr wrote:For pure, absolute convenience, a lot of sound options, and relatively low cost, a nice
choice is a floor processor with good models (I like Boss GT-8, and have heard the
GT-10s are nice, and Line 6 makes some good stuff. Don't know much about the others....

I had a GT-8 and moved up to the GT-10. The GT-10 pretty much has the same guitar modelling quality as the GT-8. With the GT-10, the overall sound quality is improved for better highs and zero digital artifacts. It also has new features, routing and FX capabilities that put it head and shoulders above the GT-8 for live performance. One big thing is having two preamp/fx chains for each program and you can instantly switch from rhythm to solo with the extra all purpose footswitch instead of changing programs. The difference between these two live on stage is like night and day.

After tweaking, the Line 6 guitar models and the Boss guitar models are both excellent; however, the Line 6 lacks the more advanced FX you get with the GT-series. That's OK if all you want is a good variety of basic FX and you don't need stuff like intelligent pitch shift or synthesizer.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:20 pm

VENTGtr wrote:A combo, you can still swap out speakers but you kind of have what you have (Of
course, you could run an extension speaker, if need be, but still).

Heh, heh, heh. Stock is never good enough, is it? Just gotta tear that stuff out of there...

I finally found a tone monster combo class A amp that has the perfect stock speaker for it. I can lift it with my pinky and its loud enough for any gig around here--if not, it has studio quality cab emulator options. I've been hearing a lot of good things about those Chinese Bogner Alchemists too.

It doesn't make a very good stage prop though.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:35 pm

LW,

Cool on the write-up on the GT-8 vs. 10. Still kind'a enamored with the
Boss floor pros and that's all good info to know.

lonewolf wrote: Heh, heh, heh. Stock is never good enough, is it? Just gotta tear that
stuff out of there...

How about it. Ya...it's a sickness...it's a sickness.

Also a cool little Koch.

lonewolf wrote: I can lift it with my pinky and its loud enough for any gig around here--

PERFECT!

lonewolf wrote: It doesn't make a very good stage prop though.

Mebbe...but neither did the "Stonehenge" in "Spinal Tap"...but we talk about
it over a quarter century later...and it was AWESOME!

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:39 pm

Dave (VENTGtr) is right on the money.

Two big problems with a rack though... 1. When you do have a problem its a bit harder to take care of in the middle of a song... But I've only had a few problems with anything, and never while mid-song during a gig. 2. Price. Not only do you have to shell out more money for the 'rack version' of your favorite widget, but you need to buy the rack to put it in too.

But I've had no different experience as far as longevity in a rack. If you have quality parts in a rack, they'll last the same as a quality stand-alone amp.

But its very nice to have options like what preamp and what power amp I put in. The power amp is the most likely piece to blow up, with it all being seperate, the show can still go on through the mains if it does.

But bass is different than guitar. Rarely what works for bass works for guitar.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:47 pm

I'm thinking about just buying a rack shell, putting some plexiglass
on the face, and throwing in about 200,000 X-Mas tree lights...You
know, just for the effect...

Will start on it as soon as I finish the 12" styrofoam Sphinx that we're
going to start lowering during the middle of shows...

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:59 pm

There is always the chicken rotisserie option too..

And the washing machines..

slackin@dabass · Post by **slackin@dabass** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:03 pm

JackANSI wrote:There is always the chicken rotisserie option too..

And the washing machines..

geddy lee is the man. i'm pretty much dead set on going with a tech21 rbi preamp when i get a new rig made up.

lonewolf, you got a point about the synth and pitch shift on the line 6 stuff. the new bass amps have a synth in them, but that's bass... so i guess it's a whole 'nother story!

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:54 am

I love the freedom of choice associated with building a rack system.
Makes me feel like I'm personalizing my rig more and I feel like I actually 'built' something because in essence I am.

Scott Bush's Engl Powerball is the only head that I've heard that really impressed me. But not enough for me to sell my rack and buy one though.

What I'm saying is that I get better results from my rack than I would have gotten with a basic head/cabinet system.
If I were to go with a head it would be an Engl Powerball without a doubt in my mind..

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:56 am

metalchurch wrote:I love the freedom of choice associated with building a rack system.
Makes me feel like I'm personalizing my rig more and I feel like I actually 'built' something because in essence I am.

Scott Bush's Engl Powerball is the only head that I've heard that really impressed me. But not enough for me to sell my rack and buy one though.

What I'm saying is that I get better results from my rack than I would have gotten with a basic head/cabinet system.
If I were to go with a head it would be an Engl Powerball without a doubt in my mind..

You need to hear the ENGL INVADER head Joe,holy crap does it smoke!!!