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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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 Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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this belongs on tech sector post, but I'm not sure how many people actually go thru those so here is my question. I have a marshall valvestate model 8040, solid state power amp with tube preamp. I also have a Zoom G2G effects processor. Trying to get a good 80's hair metal tone and a good AC/DC tone. Where should my settings be set. I've heard and read that putting mids down too low really doesn't allow the sound to cut through the mix with all of the other instruments. Currently my fellow band members are saying that with my tone the lower gets muddled and the high stuff is too squeaky and piercingly loud. trying to find that happy medium for weeks and getting very frustrated. They also said that my one guitar sounds good, and when I switch to another that is when I lose it. both guitars have the same pickups, but one is a maple neck, the other is rosewood. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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f.sciarrillo
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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Angus doesn't use any effects. He just plugs straight into a marshall amp, uses the clean channel, and turns the volume up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeE3bC366yI
Settings used for AC/DC tone in this video is: Low: 8 1/2 Mid: 3 1/2 High: 6 1/2.
He also uses a Marshall Power Break.
As for the 80's Hair Metal sound. It was mostly chorus, distortion, overdrive and sustain. Of course some went nuts with the racks and set ups.
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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thanks, that definitely helps for the AC/DC stuff.
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Jasaoke
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Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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Location: Altoona
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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| I think it's more important to find a tone that fits well with the whole band. Remember that studio recordings are very different than playing live, in terms of competing/overlapping frequencies, and how they are controlled and mixed together, as well as mastered. Switching from a hair metal sound (high gain, chorus, heavy EQ), to an Angus-like tone (mostly overdriven, heavy compression), is going to make it difficult to maintain a full, balanced overall band sound. The valvestate is a great amp. Find the tone that suits YOUR playing, then tweak it to balance with the rest of your band. And don't kill those mids; you need them. |
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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if I can find the eq settings, I can put it in as a preset on my processor and can change from one setting to another just by stomping a switch. that is what I am really trying to find out. I use the normal or clean channel with the processor and use it for my distortion. the knobs go.....gain (basically volume for the clean), bass, mid, treble.....and of course I can adjust those on my processor as well.
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StumbleFingers
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Location: Altoona
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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It's hard to be too specific without hearing your rig in person, but here are some general tips that might help:
- Don't dial in your tone at a low volume then crank it up with the band. The same settings will sound drastically different at different volumes. Most every amp mushes up at bedroom volume and you have to crank some treble. At stage volume that will be an icepick-y sound.
- In general, less gain + less effects = good. And playing with a more "naked" sound will make you a better player. Even a lot of 80s hair metal tones are just the guitar straight into the amp.
- If you want your guitars to sound more similar, try changing the pickup in one of them. Pickups sound different in every guitar. There's no one "perfect" pickup that works all the time. Finding the right pickup for any guitar is sort of a shot in the dark (one step away from you). Keep swapping 'em out until one is magic. And keep the other ones! They might be magic in another guitar down the road.
- Speaking of pickups, adjusting your pickup height can make a big difference. It's quick and easy and well worth it. I just tweaked one of my Strats using this article and I can't believe how much better it sounds.
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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yikes, this is more complex than I ever thought.....never had this issue with any of the other bands I was in, everyone thought my tone was good. Now, I see where guitar players are constantly trying to find that sound they hear in their head. Lynch always says he is constantly changing and evolving his sound to find that perfect tone. My band mates keep throwing suggestions at me, I do what they say, then at the end of practice, it's " we really need to get your tone dialed in." frustrating for me and for them I'm sure. We are on such a tight schedule at practice that we don't have time to screw around with tweaking my sound. I really appreciate everyone's input, keep it coming, please, something is bound to work.
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bassist_25
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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Jason and Greg both have good advice. Also, keep in mind that it's good to get a good "almost there" setting, but the room is going to dictate final settings. It's not as problematic with guitar, but some frequencies that shine in one room may muddy up the sound or sound too peircing in another room.
To add to Greg's advice about less gain, less EQ is also good. Make small adjustments. Also, if possible, step as far away from your cabinet as possible. What you hear two feet in front of your speakers isn't going to be what you hear 10 feet in front of your speakers.
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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that is where I am at.....almost there. I was playing thru a Bandit 112 and thought my tone was great. Sat down in front of my amp one day and went "wow, now I know what my drummer has been listening to for the past several weeks" sounds a lot different when you are standing above your amp. Like I said, I have the Marshall too, swithced to it and they said it was much better. When I use my heavier distortion preset with my ESP with the maple fretboard they say everything is good, but when I switch to my Kamikaze with the rosewood fretboard, same pickups, same settings, they said my lower tones get muddled. that is where the frustration sets in, because I don't want to go so low on the gain that my tone would be like playing in a southern rock cover band. I like the sustain with the higher gain, but don't want to deafen my drummer who is right across the room from my amp. YOI and triple YOI.
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StumbleFingers
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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Well, don't sweat it too much. Tone is so subjective, and like you said it sounds different if you so much as move a few feet. It's a never ending quest with no right or wrong answers. Just hope you haven't crossed over to the dark side where you're never happy with your sound!! I've hated my tone for about 20 years running and have accepted that it will never sound even remotely good to me.
Guitars sounding different isn't a bad thing. Every guitar sounds good for something. It's all a matter of using the right tool for the job. So go buy more guitars!
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lynch1
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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there you go.....my wife always asks why I want new guitars. I told her guitars are like fishing rods, you can never have too many. I guess if I have a tone that is "close", I can mess with the settings depending on the guitar, I can use a preset for each guitar, just have to remember them (write em down). then write down the preset and guitar on the setlist for whatever guitar sounds best for the song.
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f.sciarrillo
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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Is the Maple fretboard and Kamakazi made with with the same wood (For the body)? If not, that makes a big difference in the sound as well; even if you are using the same settings as far as pickups and electronics.
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lynch1
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| Posted: Friday Jan 04, 2013 |
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both are basswood
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bassist_25
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 05, 2013 |
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IME and to my ears, regardless of pickups and other variables, Basswood has a more dense sound. To me, it's the polar opposite of Maple and Alder, which have are more "open" tonality to them.
Some of Marshall's SS stuff is good, but Angus's tone ultimately comes down to slamming the glass in his power section. A 12AX7 in the front-end won't get you there. I'm not some "like man, it has to have toobs to be any good!" kinda guy, but I've yet to hear any processor or modeller faithfully reproduce that sound (although a lot of stuff Tech21 has been putting out lately is really impressive).
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 05, 2013 |
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I was playing my new Epiphone Les Paul last night and the tone was perfect. Lows werent muddled, highs weren't too squeaky, so it looks like that will be my " go to" guitar. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I go to practice, but they should be real happy with it, I hope. thanks for everyone's input.
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songsmith
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 05, 2013 |
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| I'm not saying that the amp is the problem, necessarily, but maybe you could try playing through an all-tube amp, and see if that strikes you. I used to think maybe a preamp tube in front of a SS power section was the obvious way to go, that way you get the saturation and smoothness of the tube with the dependability and light weight of the solid-state.... but looking back, I think it's the other way around. Perhaps the classic sound of my youth (late 70's-early 80's) was a cheapo Tube Screamer into whatever tube amp you could scrounge up. The solid-state overdrive pedal gave you lots of harmonic content, and the squishy tube power section lent some sag to each note, along with inherent compression. We spent all our cash trying to get AWAY from the cheap, fragile tube-amps, when that's what we should have been running TOWARDS. |
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whitedevilone
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 05, 2013 |
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I know fellow who's selling a JCM 800.Problem solved.
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 05, 2013 |
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how much?
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RamRod 1
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2013 |
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Lately I've beed doing a completly different approach. I don't try to play to the room at all. I use a so called "practice amp" who's owners manual says, "Not recomended for live performances". It's a Vox modeling Amp that I like to use for recording. I set it with an good basic amp model like a Fender Twin or Vox AC30 and then put a SM57 right in front of the speaker and send it to the PA. The mic is so close to the speaker, that the room has bacasiclly no effect on the sound before it gets to the microphone, goes to the board and gets delivered to the mains and monitors.
I'm not saying that this is the best way to do things but it's fun experimenting and recording out of the board to see how it goes. Like putting a picture in a copy maching and blowing it up.
Some advantages:
Very low stage volume which gives the sound person easier control.
Less equipment to haul around.
Some disadvantages:
Because it's lower volume, the guitarist never thinks his sound is right. LOL! You gotta learn to keep the faith. I'll sometimes think that it doesn't sound good, let someone else sit in and go out and listen and then say, "Wow, sounds like a record".
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onegunguitar
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2013 |
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I learned this along time ago.......the better equipment you can afford,the better your tone will be. I've owned a ton of guitar amps over the years and swore I'd never spend $2000 on an amp. Well,that Engl sure ripped heads off. Now that I play bass I swear by Mesa. Great tone with punch and clarity with almost all eq'ing set flat. That's when you know you have a kick ass rig.
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whitedevilone
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 06, 2013 |
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$1200 OBO
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Wednesday Jan 09, 2013 |
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I like your idea RamRod.......that way if the sound is perfect at the lower volume, you keep it there and let the PA fill the room. What about hearing yourself on stage, what I call stage volume? use the monitors I'm assuming?
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CMOR
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 10, 2013 |
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| lynch1 wrote: | | What about hearing yourself on stage, what I call stage volume? use the monitors I'm assuming? |
I wish more people would listen to the monitors, when possible.
My personal favorite stage volume tale(actually happened to me):
Guitarist X shows up, plugs into Marshall head(forget which one), then to 2, yes TWO, Marshall 4x12 cabs, 1 on each side of the stage. He then proceeds to turn the head up to 6-ish and keeps yelling at me to turn up his guitar in the monitors. I turned his channel OFF. His stage volume was drowning out the entire PA. Even with earplugs, my ears were ringing for 2 days.
If he had stood more than 2 feet from his amp, he might have heard it OK. I was requested to never run sound for his band again because all of their friends told them the mix was awful. I heard he pulled the same stunt with somebody else and that sound guy walked right up onto the stage and turned his amp off and proceeded to verbally bitch-slap him for being a "volume douche." Wish I could've been there.
Back on point, there is a lot of good suggestions getting tossed your way.
Good luck.
Steve
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lynch1
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Location: hollidaysburg
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 10, 2013 |
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good story......yeah, lots of good advice from everyone. thanks
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StumbleFingers
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 10, 2013 |
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It seems like it's easier to hear when everybody turns down, as crazy as that sounds. Nobody benefits from volume wars.
Our drummer in The Sitch uses a shield and when he puts that thing up, it's embarrassing to realize how loud my amp really is! My favorite setup now is a small combo amp (20W is plenty) tilted back. You can push the little amp without murdering people with volume and the tilt back makes it easier to hear. Plus the little amps are fairly directional so you get sort of a "sweet spot" right in front of it. If you want to hear a lot of yourself, you stand in the sweet spot. If you don't, you just move a little bit off-axis. I can hear myself much better with a 1x12" or 1x10" than I ever did with a stack of Marshalls.
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