[cruseaudio]

I don't want to start any annamosity here with what I am about to write, but I have spent the last 4 hours today doing research on this subject, and I am discouraged. The more I look up laws that other cities and states have in reguards to noise pollution, I am discovering that pretty much ALL of the ordinances are to vague.

I came to the conclusion that since the PLCE is an alcohol regulating body, they are confined to alcohol selling establishments. So (sorry bar owners) why don't entertainers and musicians find other non-alcohol establishments to play? Maybe a city run establishment?

Another discovery is that a person at 1:00 am that makes a noise complaint, say "i can't sleep" doesn't even have to prove that there is a legit reason for the call. This is another problem caused by the vagueness of the rule. If the person measuring the noise levels doesn't have to go by the level he reads from the location that the complainant is calling from, but by the outside walls of the establishment, how could it be fair?

I know that subject has already been brought up but not everyone knows about it.

Annonamous calls should not be considered AT ALL. If the citizen cannot or willnot put their name on a complaint then there is no public access to the incident in question and NO way to stop harrasing calls. So if a guy gets kicked out of a bar and he decides to try to get the bar shut down and makes complaint calls, there is NO WAY to protect owners from this illeagal activity. Harassment is illeagal, that is what this is, and the current rule allows these people to be "above" the law.

A refridgerator inside your house runs at about 60db spl so how could a 40dbspl reading that is taken inside the complaintants house possably be affecting them.

Another thing I think is that you can't give someone a reading on "loudness" and be done with it. You must have a comparison of the reading taken and compared with the ambient outside, road, and interior noise reading and there should be a set standard of the variences allowed between the two readings before any negative action can be taken.

And before we all go off on the thing I wrote about the bars above, understand this.

A club owner has the responsability to follow the rules, so He/She should take on the responsability of sound-proofing the establishment, right?

But how are they supposed to afford to do this? Soundproofing isn't impossible but it is EXPENSIVE!!

Club owners are making it the bands responsability to keep the noise down, well you can't change the laws of physics and there is no way around the fact that at the very least you have to be over the level of the crowd in the bar which can be above 110 dbspl already. So why are we expected to take on this responsability? But honestly what can the club owner do? Shit rolls down hill right?

I think it is all coming down to making the consumer take on some of the responsability. Everyone here knows that patrons bitch about cover charges, well screw them!! In another 5 to 10 years there won't be anywhere left for them to go if things don't change.

Think about this before you post anything, club owners - don't give me a hard time about this until you guys can drop all the anymosity that you guys have with each other and come together and change things, the so-called compitition DOESN"T EXIST anymore. every man for himself is not the way to go here. This PLCE problem IS yours and YOURS alone. Grow up shell out the bucks and run a professional establishment before you start handing your problems down to the musicians.

Where is the bar owner's assoc.? What have they done about this problem?

There were only two club owners at the meeting, so where are the rest of you, the musicians are expected to handle this problem for YOU?

musicians, you are already taking the brunt of this, which isn't even really your problem. There has never been any talk here about alternative venues, so shame on all of us!!

Patrons- well suck-it-up!!!. Before you bitch about higher covers, go clean up the puke,piss,or shit that you left in the bathroom, or elswhere. Learn to drink responsably. It isn't 1973 anymore. No other business out there will give 2 shits about you complaining about the price of things. We apparently do and I don't know why. We will stop doing this when we wise up.

I am reading through this post and I do admit it sounds like a rant, but I am just trying to start a discussion on alternative remidies to the musicians problem.

Things are the way they are around here because of things that happened in the past and the way the "industry" in this area chose to go about doing business. There are more problems here than the PLCE. There needs to be some change in just about every aspect of the local music business and I hope we can use this thread to start a mature conversation on what to change and how to change it.

And to those who take offense, I do appologise, but I don't think that you should. I hope this can turn into a brainstorming thread, not a a pissing contest

People, we need to start looking further down the road here and stop jumping of dollars to pick up quarters!

Thanks

[tonefight]

Lets save discussion on these issues for the meeting and not on the forum
_________________
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.

[cruseaudio]

Why?

[cruseaudio]

I just want to see if there is any response, if no one cares, then I don't want to waste everyones time bringing up a non-issue at the meeting. thats all

[jangel]

I am not going into a full debate here now...nor am I going to jump on your shit. But lets face it the social gathering for 21yr olds and up are bars and clubs...been that way since the beginning of time. Here are a few of the problems to look at that cause this "noise" problem.
people leaving after a night of fun...squeeling of tires, car stereos cranked, hooting and howling when leaving, throwing trash in surrounding properties, parking in peoples lawns, driveways, etc. vandalizing property,
and so on. Is it the bands fault.....no, is it the bar or clubs fault...no. but it sure can be the excuse for these people to take it out on the venues...by simply calling the plce.
spending $$$$ on insulation isn't going to cure it. Cancelling all entertainment isn't going to cure it... controlling these outside problems would cut back the nbr of complaints by 60 to 70 percent.
Now instead of bursting a blood vessel try to figure out all the problems....and spend more time on solutions instead of pointing fingers.
_________________
Where there is light, there is Hope!

[cruseaudio]

Ok Jangle, Im not tryin to fight with anyone. Just give me a list of the non- band clubs that have been shut down by plce and I will agree with you.

And besides a higher cover would keep the rif raf out. Maybe everyone else too, but I totally agree with you on the outside noise but I didnt get a chance to write abouut it, I think that once people are outside the establishment that should be handled different. I can't understand why the bar owner has to be responsable for ADULTS, and would like to see that change.

And by the way I did the best I could getting my thoughts out without pointing any fingers, but hey you can't please everyone.

[DMFJ03]

Just because a person doesn't want to pay a high cover charge, doesn't mean that they are riff raff.

You had better watch what you are saying, you will end up making more enemies than friends.

Just some friendly advice.
_________________
Jae Smith
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
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www.pabands.com

[cruseaudio]

So much for meaningful discussion and brainstorming. My bladder is empty! This obviously isn't what I intended. And there isn't any new ideas to take to the next meeting that would waste any time