I have a recurring problem with my Marshall Poweramp, that first happened when I got it, and has done it periodically since.
Whenever I'm playing, it makes a noise that can best be described like taking your cord out of your guitar while the amp is turned on and touching the end of it. It's extremely loud and overwhelming.
It is so bad, the only way to get rid of it is to turn the Poweramp off for a second and turn it back on, then it's fine.
It happens so infrequently that I really wasn't too concerned, but I was jamming with someone yesterday, and it happened, so I'd like to get it fixed now.
Thanks to anyone that has an idea or who can help, it really means alot to me. Thanks!
Need some help
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metalchurch
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Need some help
Last edited by metalchurch on Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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metalchurch
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- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Somerset
Need some help
Mike, you know for some reason, I knew you were gonna say that!
But I ain't got no tractor!
Yeah it does have me kind of puzzled about it, I'm not too sure what it could be. It just happens so infrequent, and without warning, and all that I do is turn it off and then back on like I said and it's fine.
No power supply problems and I don't have any channel switches on it, so I'm kind of stumped on this one.
I just want to try and have it fixed, just so I can rest easy, for when the time comes to play out.
If not then I'll bring it over and you can fire up the old Cubby, lock the hubs in, and tear it apart!
But I ain't got no tractor!
Yeah it does have me kind of puzzled about it, I'm not too sure what it could be. It just happens so infrequent, and without warning, and all that I do is turn it off and then back on like I said and it's fine.
No power supply problems and I don't have any channel switches on it, so I'm kind of stumped on this one.
I just want to try and have it fixed, just so I can rest easy, for when the time comes to play out.
If not then I'll bring it over and you can fire up the old Cubby, lock the hubs in, and tear it apart!
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Killjingle
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metalchurch
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Need some help
Well, yeah it has only done it at my house, until yesterday evening, I was jamming with someone at his house, and it did it there also.
I was actually thinking that it might be a power tube, but I wasn't certain.
Is this what usually happens when a tube goes bad?
I tried to explain it the best that I could, so I could give you guys a good description to go with.
Scott, I'll call you tomorrow morning sometime, sorry I missed ya.
I was actually thinking that it might be a power tube, but I wasn't certain.
Is this what usually happens when a tube goes bad?
I tried to explain it the best that I could, so I could give you guys a good description to go with.
Scott, I'll call you tomorrow morning sometime, sorry I missed ya.
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metalchurch
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Need some help
I'm just gonna plug everything into Side B of my poweramp and use that side for now.
So, atleast I'll be able to play it, and see if the problem occurs on that side.
If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts, please get back to me, it is much appreciated.
Thank you,
Joe
So, atleast I'll be able to play it, and see if the problem occurs on that side.
If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts, please get back to me, it is much appreciated.
Thank you,
Joe
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Team Transylvania
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Re: Need some help
metalchurch wrote:Well, yeah it has only done it at my house, until yesterday evening, I was jamming with someone at his house, and it did it there also.
SOMEONE???!!! how about "I was @ KEITH"s house". butthole. are you ashamed of me?
it'll take me years to recover.www.myspace.com/condemnedexistenceband
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
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onegunguitar
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Re: Need some help
I'd be ashamed to admit Joe was at your house Keith!!! Hahaha!! J/K of course!(I owe Joe a few)Team Transylvania wrote:metalchurch wrote:Well, yeah it has only done it at my house, until yesterday evening, I was jamming with someone at his house, and it did it there also.
SOMEONE???!!! how about "I was @ KEITH"s house". butthole. are you ashamed of me?
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metalchurch
- Diamond Member
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- Location: Somerset
Need some help
I was at another guy's place jammin when this happened, not your's Tranny, you cock leach, so stay out of this.
But, yeah I did take my whole rig over to Keith's yesterday, and we jammed for about 3 or 4 hours. I had alot of fun playing Heaven and Hell. I liked it when you jumped on the drums and we played it that way.
But, yeah I did take my whole rig over to Keith's yesterday, and we jammed for about 3 or 4 hours. I had alot of fun playing Heaven and Hell. I liked it when you jumped on the drums and we played it that way.
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Killjingle
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Joe, taken from Mesa's website
DIAGNOSING POWER TUBE FAILURES:
There are two main types of tube faults: shorts and noise. Both large and small tubes may fall prey to either of these problems but diagnosis and remedy is usually simple.
If a fuse blows, the problem is most likely a shorted power tube, Shorts can either be mild or severe. In a mildly shorted tube the electron flow has overcome the control grid and excess current flows to the plate. You will usually hear the amp become distorted and begin to hum slightly. If this occurs, quickly look at the power tubes as you switch the amp to STANDBY and try to identify one as glowing red hot. It is likely that two of a pair will be glowing since the "shorted" tube will pull down the bias for its adjacent mates, but one tube may be glowing hotter - and that one is the culprit. The other two are often fine - unless they've been glowing bright red for several minutes.
Because there is no physical short inside the tube (just electrons rioting out of control) merely switching to STANDBY for a few moments then back to OPERATE will usually cure the problem... at least temporarily. Watch the tubes carefully now. Should the problem recur, the intermittent tube will visibly start to over heat before the others and thus it can be identified. It should be replaced with one from the same color batch, shown on its label. Call us and we will send one out to you.
The severe short is not nearly so benign. In the worst cases, a major arcing short occurs between the plate and the cathode with visible lightning inside the glass and a major noise through the speaker. If this is seen to happen, IMMEDIATELY turn the amp to STANDBY. By this time the fuse probably will have blown. Such a short is usually caused by a physical breakdown inside the tube including contaminate coming loose or physical contact (or near contact) between the elements. Replace it and the fuse with the proper slo-blo type and power up the amp using the power up procedure as we described earlier in this manual.
TUBE NOISE & MICROPHONICS:
You may occasionally experience some form of tube noise or microphonics. Certainly no cause for alarm, this quirky behavior comes with the territory and the Tone. Much like changing a light bulb, you don't need a technician to cure these types of minor user serviceable annoyances and in fact, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to cure tube problems...by simply swapping out a pre-amp or power tube!
First may we suggest that you set the amplifier up on something so that you can get to the tubes comfortably without having to bend down. It also helps to have adequate lighting as you will need to see the tube sockets clearly to swap tubes. Use Caution and common sense when touching the tubes after the amplifier has been on as they May Be Extremely Hot! If they are hot and you don't want to wait for them to cool off, try grasping them with a rag and also note that the glass down around the bulbous silvery tip is considerably less hot which makes it easier to handle. Gently rock the tube back and forth as you pull it away from its socket.
DIAGNOSING POWER TUBE FAILURES:
There are two main types of tube faults: shorts and noise. Both large and small tubes may fall prey to either of these problems but diagnosis and remedy is usually simple.
If a fuse blows, the problem is most likely a shorted power tube, Shorts can either be mild or severe. In a mildly shorted tube the electron flow has overcome the control grid and excess current flows to the plate. You will usually hear the amp become distorted and begin to hum slightly. If this occurs, quickly look at the power tubes as you switch the amp to STANDBY and try to identify one as glowing red hot. It is likely that two of a pair will be glowing since the "shorted" tube will pull down the bias for its adjacent mates, but one tube may be glowing hotter - and that one is the culprit. The other two are often fine - unless they've been glowing bright red for several minutes.
Because there is no physical short inside the tube (just electrons rioting out of control) merely switching to STANDBY for a few moments then back to OPERATE will usually cure the problem... at least temporarily. Watch the tubes carefully now. Should the problem recur, the intermittent tube will visibly start to over heat before the others and thus it can be identified. It should be replaced with one from the same color batch, shown on its label. Call us and we will send one out to you.
The severe short is not nearly so benign. In the worst cases, a major arcing short occurs between the plate and the cathode with visible lightning inside the glass and a major noise through the speaker. If this is seen to happen, IMMEDIATELY turn the amp to STANDBY. By this time the fuse probably will have blown. Such a short is usually caused by a physical breakdown inside the tube including contaminate coming loose or physical contact (or near contact) between the elements. Replace it and the fuse with the proper slo-blo type and power up the amp using the power up procedure as we described earlier in this manual.
TUBE NOISE:
Often caused by contamination within in a tube, the culprit can usually be identified, and by lightly tapping on the glass, you will probably hear the noise change. Hearing some noise through your speakers while tapping on the 12AX7's is normal however. And the one nearer the Input will always sound louder because its output is being further amplified by the second 12AX7.
The power tubes should be all but quiet when they are tapped. If crackling or hissing changes with the tapping, you have probably found the problem. To confirm a noisy power tube, merely put the amplifier on STANDBY, remove it from its socket and turn it back on. It will cause no damage to run the amp briefly with one power tube missing. You may notice a slight background hum, however, as the push-pull becomes unbalanced.
Whenever you are trying to diagnose a suspect tube, keep your other hand ON the Power and Standby switches ready to shut them off instantly in the unlikely case you provoke a major short.
If you think you've located a problem tube but aren't sure, we recommend substituting the suspect with a new one just to be sure of your diagnoses. You will be doing yourself and us a big favor by just following the simple guidelines previously mentioned regarding tube replacement. You'll probably be successful with much less effort than is required to disconnect everything and haul the unit to a technician who will basically perform the same simple tests. If the tubes are still within their six-month warranty period, we will happily send you a replacement. Just note the color designation on the tube label so that we can send you the appropriate match.
DIAGNOSING PRE-AMP TUBE PROBLEMS:
Because your amplifier is an all tube design, it is quite possible that at some point you will experience minors pre-amp tube noise. Rest assured - this is no cause for alarm and you can take care of the problem yourself in a matter of minutes by simply swapping tubes.
Let us begin by saying; It is a "very good" idea to keep at least a couple of spare pre-amp tubes on hand at all times to insure uninterrupted performance. These minor pre-amp tube problems can take many forms but can generally be described in two categories: Noise and Microphonics, Noise can be in the form of crackling, sputtering, white noise/hiss and/or hum. Microphonic problems usually appear in the form of a ringing or high pitched squealing that gets worse as the gain or volume is increased thus are more noticeable in the higher gain Lead modes. Microphonic problems are easily identified because the problem is still present even with the instruments' volume off or unplugged altogether - unlike pick-up feedback which ceases as the instrument is turned down. Microphonic noise is caused by mechanical vibration and shock: think of banging a microphone around and you'll understand where the word came from.
The best way to approach a pre-amp tube problem is to see if it occurs only in one specific mode or channel. Then refer to the Tube Task Chart found on the sidewall of your cabinetry and it should lead you to the tube needing replacement. Then all that remains is to swap the suspect tube for a known good performer.
If you cannot narrow down the trouble to a specific mode or channel, the problem may be the small tube that drives the power tubes which is operational in all modes and channels. Though rare, a problem with the driver tube would show up in all aspects of performance - so if you can't narrow the problem down to being mode or channel specific, you may want to try replacing the driver tube. Driver problems generally show themselves in the form of crackling or hum in all modes of performance and/or weak overall output from the amplifier. Occasionally an anemic driver tube will cause the amplifier to sound flat and lifeless, but this is somewhat uncommon, as worn power tubes are a more likely suspect for this type of problem.
Sometimes making the diagnosis is more trouble than it's worth and it's faster and easier to merely replace the small preamp tubes ONE AT A TIME with a replacement known to be good. But MAKE SURE you keep returning the tubes to their original socket until you hit the one that cures the problem. You'll notice that tubes located nearer to the Input jack always sound noisier...but this is because they are at the start of the chain and their noise gets amplified over and over by the tubes that follow. The tube that goes into this "input socket" (usually labled V1) needs to be the least noisy of the bunch. The tube that goes at the end of the preamp chain - just ahead of the power tubes - can be quite noisy without causing any problem at all. The tubes in your amp have already been located in the most appropriate sockets and this is why you should NEVER pull them all out at once and ALWAYS swap them one at a time. ALWAYS return a perfectly good tube to its original socket. Also it's a good idea to put the amp on Standby when swapping tubes to reduce the heat build up in the tubes themselves and to prevent explosive noises (which can still occur even if you are pulling the tubes away from their sockets gently) from coming through the speaker.
Remember, take your time, be patient and chances are real good that you can fix your amp yourself by finding and replacing the bad tube. It kills us to see someone who has shipped their amp back to us...and all it needed was a simple tube replacement!
If you must send back your amp, unplug the power cord, speaker and reverb cables then remove the chassis from the cabinet by unscrewing the four mounting bolts on top. The chassis then slides back like a drawer and comes out. Remove the big power tubes and mark them according to their location from left to right 1, 2 etc. They need to be wrapped separately with plenty of wadded up newspaper around them and put in a smaller box within the larger carton. To wrap the chassis, use plenty of tightly wadded up newspaper so there is at least six inches of "crush space" between the chassis and the cardboard box. Bubble wrap also works well but please DON'T use styrene peanuts - they will shift during transit and get lodged inside your electronics as well as allowing your amp to end up at the bottom of the box unprotected and possibly damaged. Preamp tubes don't normally wear out as a rule. Therefore, it is not a good idea to change them just for the sake of changing them. If there isn't a problem - don't fix it. If there is no result from your substitutions, it may be possible that you have more than one problematic tube. Though rare, this does happen and though it makes the troubleshooting process a little more intimidating, it is still possible to cure the problem yourself.
NOTE: It is normal to hear a slight metallic ringing sound when tapping on the preamp tubes. As long as the tube does not break into oscillation or start crackling or any other form of bizzare noise, it is considered normal and functional.
DIAGNOSING POWER TUBE FAILURES:
There are two main types of tube faults: shorts and noise. Both large and small tubes may fall prey to either of these problems but diagnosis and remedy is usually simple.
If a fuse blows, the problem is most likely a shorted power tube, Shorts can either be mild or severe. In a mildly shorted tube the electron flow has overcome the control grid and excess current flows to the plate. You will usually hear the amp become distorted and begin to hum slightly. If this occurs, quickly look at the power tubes as you switch the amp to STANDBY and try to identify one as glowing red hot. It is likely that two of a pair will be glowing since the "shorted" tube will pull down the bias for its adjacent mates, but one tube may be glowing hotter - and that one is the culprit. The other two are often fine - unless they've been glowing bright red for several minutes.
Because there is no physical short inside the tube (just electrons rioting out of control) merely switching to STANDBY for a few moments then back to OPERATE will usually cure the problem... at least temporarily. Watch the tubes carefully now. Should the problem recur, the intermittent tube will visibly start to over heat before the others and thus it can be identified. It should be replaced with one from the same color batch, shown on its label. Call us and we will send one out to you.
The severe short is not nearly so benign. In the worst cases, a major arcing short occurs between the plate and the cathode with visible lightning inside the glass and a major noise through the speaker. If this is seen to happen, IMMEDIATELY turn the amp to STANDBY. By this time the fuse probably will have blown. Such a short is usually caused by a physical breakdown inside the tube including contaminate coming loose or physical contact (or near contact) between the elements. Replace it and the fuse with the proper slo-blo type and power up the amp using the power up procedure as we described earlier in this manual.
TUBE NOISE & MICROPHONICS:
You may occasionally experience some form of tube noise or microphonics. Certainly no cause for alarm, this quirky behavior comes with the territory and the Tone. Much like changing a light bulb, you don't need a technician to cure these types of minor user serviceable annoyances and in fact, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to cure tube problems...by simply swapping out a pre-amp or power tube!
First may we suggest that you set the amplifier up on something so that you can get to the tubes comfortably without having to bend down. It also helps to have adequate lighting as you will need to see the tube sockets clearly to swap tubes. Use Caution and common sense when touching the tubes after the amplifier has been on as they May Be Extremely Hot! If they are hot and you don't want to wait for them to cool off, try grasping them with a rag and also note that the glass down around the bulbous silvery tip is considerably less hot which makes it easier to handle. Gently rock the tube back and forth as you pull it away from its socket.
DIAGNOSING POWER TUBE FAILURES:
There are two main types of tube faults: shorts and noise. Both large and small tubes may fall prey to either of these problems but diagnosis and remedy is usually simple.
If a fuse blows, the problem is most likely a shorted power tube, Shorts can either be mild or severe. In a mildly shorted tube the electron flow has overcome the control grid and excess current flows to the plate. You will usually hear the amp become distorted and begin to hum slightly. If this occurs, quickly look at the power tubes as you switch the amp to STANDBY and try to identify one as glowing red hot. It is likely that two of a pair will be glowing since the "shorted" tube will pull down the bias for its adjacent mates, but one tube may be glowing hotter - and that one is the culprit. The other two are often fine - unless they've been glowing bright red for several minutes.
Because there is no physical short inside the tube (just electrons rioting out of control) merely switching to STANDBY for a few moments then back to OPERATE will usually cure the problem... at least temporarily. Watch the tubes carefully now. Should the problem recur, the intermittent tube will visibly start to over heat before the others and thus it can be identified. It should be replaced with one from the same color batch, shown on its label. Call us and we will send one out to you.
The severe short is not nearly so benign. In the worst cases, a major arcing short occurs between the plate and the cathode with visible lightning inside the glass and a major noise through the speaker. If this is seen to happen, IMMEDIATELY turn the amp to STANDBY. By this time the fuse probably will have blown. Such a short is usually caused by a physical breakdown inside the tube including contaminate coming loose or physical contact (or near contact) between the elements. Replace it and the fuse with the proper slo-blo type and power up the amp using the power up procedure as we described earlier in this manual.
TUBE NOISE:
Often caused by contamination within in a tube, the culprit can usually be identified, and by lightly tapping on the glass, you will probably hear the noise change. Hearing some noise through your speakers while tapping on the 12AX7's is normal however. And the one nearer the Input will always sound louder because its output is being further amplified by the second 12AX7.
The power tubes should be all but quiet when they are tapped. If crackling or hissing changes with the tapping, you have probably found the problem. To confirm a noisy power tube, merely put the amplifier on STANDBY, remove it from its socket and turn it back on. It will cause no damage to run the amp briefly with one power tube missing. You may notice a slight background hum, however, as the push-pull becomes unbalanced.
Whenever you are trying to diagnose a suspect tube, keep your other hand ON the Power and Standby switches ready to shut them off instantly in the unlikely case you provoke a major short.
If you think you've located a problem tube but aren't sure, we recommend substituting the suspect with a new one just to be sure of your diagnoses. You will be doing yourself and us a big favor by just following the simple guidelines previously mentioned regarding tube replacement. You'll probably be successful with much less effort than is required to disconnect everything and haul the unit to a technician who will basically perform the same simple tests. If the tubes are still within their six-month warranty period, we will happily send you a replacement. Just note the color designation on the tube label so that we can send you the appropriate match.
DIAGNOSING PRE-AMP TUBE PROBLEMS:
Because your amplifier is an all tube design, it is quite possible that at some point you will experience minors pre-amp tube noise. Rest assured - this is no cause for alarm and you can take care of the problem yourself in a matter of minutes by simply swapping tubes.
Let us begin by saying; It is a "very good" idea to keep at least a couple of spare pre-amp tubes on hand at all times to insure uninterrupted performance. These minor pre-amp tube problems can take many forms but can generally be described in two categories: Noise and Microphonics, Noise can be in the form of crackling, sputtering, white noise/hiss and/or hum. Microphonic problems usually appear in the form of a ringing or high pitched squealing that gets worse as the gain or volume is increased thus are more noticeable in the higher gain Lead modes. Microphonic problems are easily identified because the problem is still present even with the instruments' volume off or unplugged altogether - unlike pick-up feedback which ceases as the instrument is turned down. Microphonic noise is caused by mechanical vibration and shock: think of banging a microphone around and you'll understand where the word came from.
The best way to approach a pre-amp tube problem is to see if it occurs only in one specific mode or channel. Then refer to the Tube Task Chart found on the sidewall of your cabinetry and it should lead you to the tube needing replacement. Then all that remains is to swap the suspect tube for a known good performer.
If you cannot narrow down the trouble to a specific mode or channel, the problem may be the small tube that drives the power tubes which is operational in all modes and channels. Though rare, a problem with the driver tube would show up in all aspects of performance - so if you can't narrow the problem down to being mode or channel specific, you may want to try replacing the driver tube. Driver problems generally show themselves in the form of crackling or hum in all modes of performance and/or weak overall output from the amplifier. Occasionally an anemic driver tube will cause the amplifier to sound flat and lifeless, but this is somewhat uncommon, as worn power tubes are a more likely suspect for this type of problem.
Sometimes making the diagnosis is more trouble than it's worth and it's faster and easier to merely replace the small preamp tubes ONE AT A TIME with a replacement known to be good. But MAKE SURE you keep returning the tubes to their original socket until you hit the one that cures the problem. You'll notice that tubes located nearer to the Input jack always sound noisier...but this is because they are at the start of the chain and their noise gets amplified over and over by the tubes that follow. The tube that goes into this "input socket" (usually labled V1) needs to be the least noisy of the bunch. The tube that goes at the end of the preamp chain - just ahead of the power tubes - can be quite noisy without causing any problem at all. The tubes in your amp have already been located in the most appropriate sockets and this is why you should NEVER pull them all out at once and ALWAYS swap them one at a time. ALWAYS return a perfectly good tube to its original socket. Also it's a good idea to put the amp on Standby when swapping tubes to reduce the heat build up in the tubes themselves and to prevent explosive noises (which can still occur even if you are pulling the tubes away from their sockets gently) from coming through the speaker.
Remember, take your time, be patient and chances are real good that you can fix your amp yourself by finding and replacing the bad tube. It kills us to see someone who has shipped their amp back to us...and all it needed was a simple tube replacement!
If you must send back your amp, unplug the power cord, speaker and reverb cables then remove the chassis from the cabinet by unscrewing the four mounting bolts on top. The chassis then slides back like a drawer and comes out. Remove the big power tubes and mark them according to their location from left to right 1, 2 etc. They need to be wrapped separately with plenty of wadded up newspaper around them and put in a smaller box within the larger carton. To wrap the chassis, use plenty of tightly wadded up newspaper so there is at least six inches of "crush space" between the chassis and the cardboard box. Bubble wrap also works well but please DON'T use styrene peanuts - they will shift during transit and get lodged inside your electronics as well as allowing your amp to end up at the bottom of the box unprotected and possibly damaged. Preamp tubes don't normally wear out as a rule. Therefore, it is not a good idea to change them just for the sake of changing them. If there isn't a problem - don't fix it. If there is no result from your substitutions, it may be possible that you have more than one problematic tube. Though rare, this does happen and though it makes the troubleshooting process a little more intimidating, it is still possible to cure the problem yourself.
NOTE: It is normal to hear a slight metallic ringing sound when tapping on the preamp tubes. As long as the tube does not break into oscillation or start crackling or any other form of bizzare noise, it is considered normal and functional.
Everyone wants to go to heaven but noone wants to die
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Team Transylvania
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Yeah, Joe, i had a blast. I thought you were talking about when you came over to my place. I secretly wanna be a drummer. Thats why i practice the drums often. I think im pretty good for not being a drummer!
Thanks for teaching me 'Heaven and Hell' on guitar by the way. AWESOME SONG.
Thanks for teaching me 'Heaven and Hell' on guitar by the way. AWESOME SONG.
www.myspace.com/condemnedexistenceband
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
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Killjingle
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Team Transylvania
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:35 pm
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I have talent? Thanks dude! Seriously,that means alot.
There is a drumkit here and has been for awhile.
One day, ill record a song and also do the drums on a real set, but i dont think id want to be a drummer full time.
There is a drumkit here and has been for awhile.
One day, ill record a song and also do the drums on a real set, but i dont think id want to be a drummer full time.
www.myspace.com/condemnedexistenceband
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
www.myspace.com/endofthesun
www.dropthepisshammer.com
The Musical Exorcist
-
metalchurch
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Somerset
Need some help
Chad, thanks alot, that pretty much summed up my problems. I'm just gonna run through Side B in the meantime, and have this thing re tubed asap.
Thanks alot, that was real cool!
Thanks alot, that was real cool!
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BloodyFingers
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- Contact:
noisy amp
Take to Kenny Oiler at Ford Music downtown Alttona. He is the Master.
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ToonaRockGuy
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- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
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DrumAndDestroy
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