Epi Pauls

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:13 am

Just ordered a $400 P.O.S. Epi Les Paul from the friend. I wanted simply for the reason that I'm tired of the headstock breaking off of my Gibson LP Classic. It's in the shop now for re-glue #3. So I guess I'm gonna use this asian plywood guitar for most of my gigs. Anyone have any idea what kind off toneless hell I'm descending into?

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:20 am

Nothing wrong with an Epi that a good setup and a good set of pickups won't fix. You can pick up real Gibson pickups for a decent price since so many people swap to EMGs. I got a set of barely used Gibsons for $40 and my Epi sounds like a whole new guitar now.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:20 am

You may get lucky. Some Epiphones are actually of very high quality, even comparable to their Gibson counterparts. Personally, I think that the prices that Gibsons wants for some of their instruments are outrageous. I'm willing to pay for quality, but I just couldn't spend more than $2k for a production line instrument. Anymore money than that, and I'd either want to get something from a company's custom shop or go through a small luthier. That's just my opinion. I'm sure many would disagree.

You may be pleasnatly surprised by the Les Paul that you're getting.

DrumAndDestroy · Post by **DrumAndDestroy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:24 pm

I have a Les Paul double cutaway which is a Gibson, but I have an Epi Standard.

No complaints...

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:51 pm

I have a "limited edition" EPI Les Paul Classic. It has Gibson (USA made) pickups, mahogany body, quilt maple top, etc. I use this all the time and have no complaints on it. I've owned Gibsons, and I have only found
very subtle differences between them. Throw in some upgrades (pickups/tuners), and I bet you'll be satisfied. You'll also save a bundle.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:45 pm

I'm going to agree with everyone else. Pretty much all of the set neck Epi's are right on par with their Gibson counterparts.
I owned an Epiphone flying V, and it was all but equal to my Gibson flying V.

You will probably want to upgrade the pups, and maybe the tuners, like some have stated.
Gibson, however were never known for having great tuners, so that really goes without saying.

My friend's father is a huge Gibson SG and Les Paul freak. He agrees with this also.

He has a Heritage guitar and it is probably better than any Gibson.
Heritage is a company made up of former Gibson employees who started their own company when Gibson moved from Kalamazoo, MI to their Nashville plant.

It's an interesting story, if anyone's interested in reading more and checking out their products, I urge you to take a minute and check it out.

http://www.heritageguitar.com/company/about_us.htm

http://www.heritageguitar.com/company/owners.htm

DrumAndDestroy · Post by **DrumAndDestroy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:56 pm

Cool guitars and neat story too.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:00 pm

I tried to find a local dealer, and it appears that Maryland would be the closest.

I was looking for a pricelist also, but they only have the catalog.
No mention about lefties either, what else is new...

We compared Epiphone to Gibson, now what about Fender's Mexican and the USA?

How would they compare other than the pickups, and maybe some finish and wood options?

To me they all seem the same, and I'm in the dark about the actual factuals on Fender's products.

The actual factuals? wtf! (I need to put my game face on)

Now lets get down to brass tacks here...

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:33 pm

the hardware and pickups on the USA fender are better than the MIM ones. The USA fingerboards have rolled edges. I'm not sure about the guitars, but the USA basses have graphite support rods in the neck. The USA jazz and precision basses are available with maple necks, and the MIM ones are only available in rosewood, but the mexi guitars are available both ways. USA basses are string through body, and the mexi ones aren't. I'm pretty sure all teles are string through body regardless of origin, and I'm not sure if I've ever even seen a hardtail strat to note the difference.

I'd say the fretword and setup are better on the USA fenders, but who doesn't set their instrument up to taste anyway.

I don't really notice any difference in the finish quality.

Of course Gibson guitars are finished in nitrocellulose laquer, and the epis are poly, thats the biggest unfixable difference right there.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:43 pm

Thanks for the insight on this, I was hoping that some Fender Freak would get in on this.
Perhaps, Fender Aficionado would have sufficed.
I better watch, you guys are rabid. LOL

Hard tail strats are really cool, I've never had one, but I always wanted to build a White Jake E. Lee Charvel. His white one was a modded 1975 Fender Strat hard tail that was redone by a close friend, who happened to work at Charvel. Must have been nice how about it!

So, mostly it's just hardware and of course a 'better' setup?

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:25 pm

I can't believe the headstock broke again, stratobastard. I thought the second fix would do it. I don't know if I'd ever use it at a gig again.

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:49 am

I'm having it dowel-rodded through the top of the headstock this time. And it'll be making scant few out-of-house appearances from here on out.

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:34 am

That's a good idea. As well as it plays, I wouldn't take any more chances with it.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:00 pm

EPIs can be seriously nice instruments. A friend has an Epi Firebird that's incredible.

He put in a pair if Lindy Freilin mini humbuckers and did the usual adjustments/setups
but it plays really nice. Actually...to the point of me considering getting one.

I've played a coupl'a Epi Les' that have been pretty nice as well.

As for Fender, like MeYa said, it depends what you get as far as the MIMs. There are
some MIMs that are as well made as USAs (The Jimmy Vaughan Strats are MIM). I
have a USA and an MIM and the only difference is that Middle pickup on the MIM was
muddy and the MIMs have the six screw trem (Which most feel provide better tone
anyway).

When I was considering getting a second strat I went in thinking that I'd get another
USA because I wanted to be sure I had something of higher quality. Looked around
for a while and finally found 2 that I wanted. Ended up going with the MIM over the
USA. They felt the same, sounded essentially the same, with the exception of the
Middle and I was goin' to be switching Pups anyway.

The wiring, etc. has been the same (Which is where I'd've expected some major differences).

Have been using the MIM more lately, actually.

Granted, I rough up the back of the neck, etc. so they're not so finished, so some
might find a difference there.

A lot of the MIM bodies aren't a single piece of wood, but then again, that's then the
case with many other manufacturers. In reality ALL Fender bodies are made in
Mexico and the USA versions are just shipped over to Escondido for assembly.

I'm sure if you stripped them down it's possible the woods used for the USA versions
are nicer looking grains, but with all the paints, lacquers, etc. how often does that
come into the picture.

One of the most discerning players I know has used a MIM Strat for years and likes
it better than anything else he's had

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:30 pm

Vent, thanks for the insight on this. I had a feeling that the Mexi and the USA's weren't too far from each other. Like I said, I'm not a Fender guy, so I didn't want to assume anything.

The MIJ Fender's were supposed to be excellent quality also. I missed out on a Lefty MIJ with a floyd, and it was white, my fav color for a guitar.
Well it was white, it had a nice aged vintage white hue to it.

It does get confusing about the Strats, because in the last 10 years+ there have been so many different variations of them, (Highway1, relic, Closet Classic, the Reissues, Special colors, the Signatures, etc..) but they all look the same to me. Kind of seems like the Baskin Robbins flavor of the month type of thing.

I bet the Fender guys even have a hard time keeping track of them.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:35 pm

P.S.
stratobastard, you'll have to let us know what you think of the Epi, when you get it.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:55 pm

VENTGtr wrote:A lot of the MIM bodies aren't a single piece of wood, but then again, that's then the case with many other manufacturers.

Single piece bodies on Fenders made anywhere at any point in history are rare to the point of mythical status.

stratobastard27 · Post by **stratobastard27** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:55 pm

Got my Paul this morning right off the conveyor belt (I'm a Fedex driver). Busted my ass all day so I could get home to play it. Took the factory strings off, and the nut fell on the ground. This can't be good. Felt around, and found a crack on the fucking neck!!!! AGGGHHHHH!!!!! So I'll send this one back. I'm still gonna plug it in tonight and see what the p/ups are like.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:50 pm

stratobastard27 wrote:Took the factory strings off, and the nut fell on the ground.
This can't be good. Felt around, and found a crack on the fucking neck!!!!

Man, that's unbelievable. Should never happen.

metalchurch wrote: The MIJ Fender's were supposed to be excellent quality also.

MIJ strats were better made for years. Fender's had such a screwed up history.
For a while it looked like the company was going to be no more.

metalchurch wrote: It does get confusing about the Strats, because in the last 10 years+ there have
been so many different variations of them.

I bet the Fender guys even have a hard time keeping track of them.[/quote]

Ya, it's pretty ridiculous. I don't even bother trying. Every month there's some new
model (This month is the SRV "Lenny"). For me, the general rule is go with "Standard"
and customize yer own self.

My black strat had a Floyd for years, now I put on a Lefty neck and the original trem,
several different pickguards, etc.

Good luck getting the Epi thing worked out. Keep us updated on the next round.

Later,
DaveP.

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:29 pm

That sucks about your guitar showing up that way. It could possibly have occured during packing and shipping stage? Some companies have a "bad habit" of these things occuring...... cough/cough/cough (no names mentioned). I've received two guitars from this company with problems related to shipping. One was sent without the trem arm for the Floyd Rose (took almost a month for them to send trem arm to me) and I had to get one locally in the interim in order to use the guitar. They wanted me to call the manufacturer to obtain it and I explained I "bought it from you, not them and that makes you responsible!). The other was sent without the case (was just packed in a box with paper and bubble wrap) I was pissed! Luckily nothing was wrong with the guitar. I had to call them (again) on this, and the case took about 10 days to arrive. Be careful who you order from. Good Luck!

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:30 pm

Yep, that's the thing the local stores have all over "...your Friend." Plus, the Friend-ly folks won't spend a single minute B.S.-ing about your gig, or band, or CD, or anything other than how you will pay for your item.
As for Fender goodies, ask rickw. He's been ordering and selling them for years. I like the MIM's, there's just a nice resonance to them, but I'm big on the Squier Standard series... excellent quality, and very ripe for tweaks you'd make to a much more expensive guitar, anyway. It's always minor stuff like action, intonation, or smoothing the fretwire edges a little. Great value if you like modding.--->JMS

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:10 pm

songsmith wrote:Great value if you like modding.

As much as people mod guitars, it'd be neat if guitars (even high end ones) were available "empty". If people are going to buy a $3000 guitar and immediately rip out the pickups, why not have an option to leave the electronics out and knock a few hundred bucks off the price?

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:26 pm

Jimi, as much as we'd all love that, there's probably some kind of warranty clause or something like that.

I thought about ordering a new Ford Mustang, but w/ out a heater, A/C, carpet, sound deadener, No power steering, manual brakes, etc...
Just a 4.6L, a Tremec 5 speed, and a set of 4.56's in the rear.
Just an 'Oh Shit' bar to grab onto when rippin' through the gears at WOT.

Not sure why companies have to be assholes like that and only sell a finished product?

I'm with you on the guitar thing too Jimi!!

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:40 pm

Jimi Hatt wrote:[it'd be neat if guitars (even high end ones) were available "empty"

I like the idea of getting Warmoth, Performance, etc. parts and building from the ground up.

Surprised more guys on here don't use 'em.

Since a lot of "stock" parts aren't the greatest anyway, often times, and often yer just
payin' for the name it makes sense.

Now CARS....a slightly different matter.

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:51 pm

I agree, other than the fact that I dislike Fender's in their stock form, I've never really saw the point of me buying one just to mod it.

When really, all that I'd be left with would be a Fender body, and maybe the output jack.

For those wanting to put the time in, there's no substitute for building your own guitar from the body up.

Also the great thing about bolt ons, is that you can choose whatever neck and profile you want on it.

I always preferred rear mounted control cavity's as opposed to the pickguard approach, I think that they look cleaner.