Frustration with smoking ban

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:43 pm

Ok.....I just want to vent here a little bit.....just a little though...

The smoking ban didn't hurt us much...we still do decent business and it continues to get better.

But, the other day, my husband was at another business...a gas station. The owner asked about the rule regarding the smoking ban...he said one of his employees were wondering because he went to another local bar/restaurant, etc on Saturday night. There was a good crowd there and they were smoking all over the place. He felt that the crowd was mainly there because of their ability to smoke.

Now the thing is...this place is not approved to allow smoking. None of our local bars are. We stick to the law...put a great deal of money into trying to make our smoking customers comfortable in our outdoor smoking lounge (thanks to the wind for trying to destroy or cost us more though). I keep telling my husband to stay with the law...what goes around comes around....but it is hard. We just want an even playing field.

BTW...this is the only place I discuss issues like this. I've learned not to attack other businesses by name or I will be flamed big time. I have a lot of folks who agree with me on issues, and those who disagree. But we do have respect for each other no matter what our opinions are among us. I tend not to use rockpage as a place to promote ourselves but to give me a lot of feedback from those in the live entertainment business. There are only a very few of us business owners on this site. I love Big John's postings.....some day I would love to meet him.

Ok...so now I've vented....I must go out to myspace now and do my promotion of our place....

Happy 2009 to everyone!

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:52 pm

There will never be a level playing field until the legislature passes an across-the-board ban. I have spoken with many restaurant/lounge owners who are equally frustrated with the "some are exempt, some are not" stipulations of this "ban."

It's not a ban.

I see what you're saying about people ignoring the law as it applies to them and all I can say is stick with what you're doing. Eventually, these folks who ignore the law will pay for it.

r:>)

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:50 pm

BadDazeRob wrote:I see what you're saying about people ignoring the law
as it applies to them and all I can say is stick with what you're doing. Eventually,
these folks who ignore the law will pay for it.
r:>)

True.

Also, obviously, not sure of the place you're referring, but I do know of two that
could be seen as your direction competition for whom the "ban" doesn't apply.
While these particular two are ones we play/have played...I do think it's a load
that you're held to one rule while they're not.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:17 pm

VENTGtr wrote:
True.

Also, obviously, not sure of the place you're referring, but I do know of two that
could be seen as your direction competition for whom the "ban" doesn't apply.
While these particular two are ones we play/have played...I do think it's a load
that you're held to one rule while they're not.

Actually Dave, the only bars that would be the closes to us that are approved to allow smoking are in Coalport and another one in Osceola. All others have not been approved and are under the same rules as we are...they just aren't following the law.

You can see it on the Dept of Health's site who was approved. Just because a bar thinks they qualified to permit smoking does not give the the break...they have to apply. If they haven't applied before the law went into affect, they have to be smoke free until they are approved. All of those that applied before the law and approved are updated.

And, I do not hold it against any band that plays at any other place that isn't following the law....but the other owners sure do pull a wedgie in my panties from time to time.....

There are only about a dozen places in Clearfield County that were approved.

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:21 pm

They put the 'ban' into effect without making sure that enforcement could even be possible. I doubt anyone will be getting a slap from the DOH for at least a year or more.

Personally I think the law will either be expanded or repealed before any enforcement actually happens.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:46 pm

Lisa,

Actually, one of them I meant is in Osceola, the other one's closer to
you... though their number doesn't even appear in the phone book.

Matter of fact, I thought about editing to say they at least SAY they're not
under the ban ("They" made a point of mentioning this once is the only
reason I have that tidbit). Wouldn't surprise me otherwise, but since part
of it is based on food sales, etc...and they've served none not consisting
of Jello, that I've seen...well...

JackANSI wrote:I doubt anyone will be getting a slap from the DOH
for at least a year or more.

Know...could see them expanding the PLCB's authority, if it's not there
at the moment, to enforce. Might just be my dislike of that particular
agency raising a sense of paranoia though.

JackANSI wrote:Personally I think the law will either be expanded
or repealed before any enforcement actually happens.

Ya. Hard to see them repealing it, but expanding wouldn't surprise
me at all.

onetooloud · Post by **onetooloud** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:57 pm

Ok so where is the list of whos approved and whos not. I've spent a few minutes looking for this list and didn't find it.

Maybe a link if ya have it.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:11 pm

onetooloud wrote:Ok so where is the list of whos approved and whos not. I've spent a few minutes looking for this list and didn't find it.

Maybe a link if ya have it.

Here is a link for who has been approved. http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/healt ... p?Q=251758

They were not going to update this site until they had all of those places who submitted prior to the law reviewed. If you did not submit your application before that time, you have to be smokefree until your application is approved.

Dave - I think the one in Osceola that has been approved is not the one that you play at....the one that is approved has no bands.

I think the one that you play at that is close to us is qualified to be exempted without a doubt...they have no food sales and do not permit anyone under the age of 18 to be in the location. I just don't think they realize that they still need to apply. I'm really ok with them because they would qualify.

The one in Osceola that you play at....they don't qualify....they have a son who may be in the facility and is under the age of 18...they may also have guests under the age of 18. They are more tricky...but then again, they don't really bother me....don't know why they don't.

But I'm sure you can kind of guess some of the other places nearby that do bother me.....its just the arrogance they have that they are above the laws.

The one place even had an event the other week....it was a benefit and I hope they did well with that part...but the place was telling everyone that they were going to stay open until 4am selling alcohol because they got a special approval to do so. There is no such thing....total violation.

Its that attitude that they know they are violating the law but think they can lie to the general public about it and that everyone around would be naive enough to believe them.

Oh well, like I said...I've vented....now I will move on.

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

VENTGtr wrote:
JackANSI wrote:I doubt anyone will be getting a slap from the DOH
for at least a year or more.
Know...could see them expanding the PLCB's authority, if it's not there
at the moment, to enforce. Might just be my dislike of that particular
agency raising a sense of paranoia though.

I thought it was under the PLCB at first. But I believe it was Lisa that corrected my assumption.

After having more than enough time to think about it, I think that there could be more ground to stand on if someone were to challenge such a law under the PLCB. DOH has the precedent of the tobacco companies having to admit their products are unhealthy. (without having the PLCB find a way to dodge the question about alcohol being unhealthy, so why allow it?)

But also during that train of thought, I started to wonder how much money the state makes on taxes on smokers. Which gave light to a pretty good argument about why they won't stomp out smoking everywhere.

Then it decended into some orwellian government scheme to provide an extra method of class seperation.

Which led to the fallacy: If speed kills, outlaw it. Therefore if smoking kills, outlaw it.

Then my head exploded.

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:54 pm

JackANSI wrote: Then my head exploded.

'T's okay. I found a roll of electrical tape. Blue, no less.

JackANSI · Post by **JackANSI** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:56 pm

The adhesive on that stuff itches. Probably causes cancer too.

Outlaw blue electrical tape!!

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:17 pm

JayBird · Post by **JayBird** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:35 pm

The big bars in Ebensburg look like chimneys. I think some venues/bars/clubs are getting more business if they are allowed to have smoking. At these places you're an outsider if you don't have a death stick hanging out of your mouth. One place in particular was so bad that I was only able to stand the smoke for about an hour. The smoke was like a thick fog. My eyes were burning so bad and the lack of clean air made it almost unbreathable. It's a two way street. At one point I enjoyed going to these places and will now limit my time spent in these bars/clubs. I've since found other places to frequent...non-smoking or designated smoking sections.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:58 pm

I think the places that allow smoking don't necessarily get more business. I just think that people smoke more, because they know they are allowed. I've seen people smoke a whole pack in a few hours.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:47 pm

I think there is more anal sex in gay bar bathrooms. Oh, and scissoring.

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:00 pm

RobTheDrummer wrote: I've seen people smoke a whole pack in a few hours.

sure you did, asshole.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:03 pm

mjb wrote:
RobTheDrummer wrote: I've seen people smoke a whole pack in a few hours.
sure you did, asshole.

LOL!

He is a blast to party with. He watches people smoke and counts how many cigs they burn. just bustin yer balls man.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:19 pm

Fuck all you guys! As a matter of fact, my friend Tim, has been known to buy a pack right before going out and is bumming cigs by the end of the night....so yea, fuckers.

Sanchez, I'll buy that argument...wanna scissor?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:22 pm

The only constitutional smoking bans are those that are intended to protect the health of the employees at an establishment. Period. That is the premise on which PA's smoking ban is predicated.

By the same token, these constitutional smoking bans MUST be enforced by the organizational government authority who has juris diction for enforcement. In this case, its the DOH.

Nobody else, including the PLCB or the State Police, has constitutional juris diction for enforcement over this issue.

The smoking ban is no more than another item on a health inspection checklist and is right up there with running hot water.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:48 pm

Does anyone know what the punishment is for first and subsequent offenses? Can they shut a place just for smoking?--->JMS

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:53 pm

songsmith wrote:Does anyone know what the punishment is for first and subsequent offenses? Can they shut a place just for smoking?--->JMS

The Owner in question has to chainsmoke a whole pack of non filters, even if they turn green and throw up after only one puff.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:24 pm

No, that was my Dad's punishment for smoking.

--->JMS

Colton · Post by **Colton** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:26 pm

I think that chick on top is scissoring the wrong direction

metalchurch · Post by **metalchurch** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:31 pm

songsmith wrote:Does anyone know what the punishment is for first and subsequent offenses? Can they shut a place just for smoking?--->JMS

Thats whats strange about this whole thing, there's not many details about the enforcement or punishment for the "crime."
I'm curious to know as well.

I have a feeling that this law will only be expanded in the coming year or so.

Next thing there will be no smoking at the gas pumps.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:43 pm

The punishment is monetary.

Penalties of the Clean Indoor Air Act

The CIAA provides for the following penalties

· The owner, operator or manager of the premises may be penalized for failing to post proper signage in amounts ranging from $250 to $1,000.

· The owner, operator or manager of the premises may be penalized for allowing smoking where it is prohibited in amounts ranging from $250 to $1,000

· A person (patron or employ of the premises) may be penalized for smoking where it is prohibited in amounts ranging from $250 to $1,000

The owner, operator, manager of the premises, or a lessee if in actual control of the premises is responsible for ensuring compliance and may be penalized.