Bumped out for a dj

rickster · Post by **rickster** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:02 pm

Got bumped for a dj today over a $50 price diff...well not officialy but its was like....so and so dj always brings a good crowd, His schedule might be opening up for the 18th if he does well have to move you back a week.....

oh ya, hes $50 cheaper too

4_the_pocket · Post by **4_the_pocket** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:26 pm

rickster wrote:Got bumped for a dj today over a $50 price diff...well not officialy but its was like....so and so dj always brings a good crowd, His schedule might be opening up for the 18th if he does well have to move you back a week..... oh ya, hes $50 cheaper too

Key phrase, "always brings a good crowd". AND $50 cheaper. These are the times we live in. Bars have to make money. You're new to the whole band thing right? At least it sounds like you're getting an alternative date. It could be worse.

Don't get discouraged.

rickster · Post by **rickster** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:47 pm

Im not discouraged...I was just glad that they jumped on us, considering we have delivered no demo and theyve never heard us..and are going to pay us asking price.I was unsettled by their couth, but I geuss i better develop a thick skin

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:49 pm

rickster wrote:Im not discouraged...I was just glad that they jumped on us, considering we have delivered no demo and theyve never heard us..and are going to pay us asking price.I was unsettled by their couth, but I geuss i better develop a thick skin

More like a suit of armor than a thick skin. It does not get any easier after 4 decades in the business either.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:20 am

True dat Duane!

KeithReynolds · Post by **KeithReynolds** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:36 am

Rickster...how did you book a band that isnt a full band??
arent you guys just a gtr and bass player?? maybe that had something to do with it.

rickster · Post by **rickster** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:19 am

No , that is Mine and Kayla's project.I joined the classic rock band Midnight crossing as rytyhm guitarist.Good people.They have been together for 10 years or so.I can learn a lot from them.

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:23 am

Don't you just love Djs... They undercut bands all the time and they don't take breaks and can play damn near every request... I wonder how many have the tune "sister" or "short Bus" in thier catalog of music ??

KeithReynolds · Post by **KeithReynolds** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:27 am

see this is where i think its confusing. DJs arent doing anything..its the bar owners who choose to book DJs.
DJs dont run around trying to assassinate bands. Atleast I dont think so. Bars wanna make $$. Blame them

rickster · Post by **rickster** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:29 am

SISTER!!!LMAo

You should share that with the rockpagers some time..

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:51 am

how many DJs play for the door ???

KeithReynolds · Post by **KeithReynolds** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:55 am

Couldnt tell you. I dont know any.

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:37 pm

EXACTLY, Todd! GOOD POINT!

4_the_pocket · Post by **4_the_pocket** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:51 pm

todd17063 wrote:Don't you just love Djs... They undercut bands all the time and they don't take breaks and can play damn near every request... I wonder how many have the tune "sister" or "short Bus" in thier catalog of music ??

How do they undercut bands? They have less overhead so naturally they are going to be cheaper. Yeah, they can and do take requests. They can also play the latest hits by simply hitting the download button. They also take up less space and give a club owner an "alternative" to live music. Dont blame DJs....they are just another form of entertainment. Some even have their own culture (Im thinking more of metro areas) just like bands do.

FourthDimensionAudio wrote:see this is where i think its confusing. DJs arent doing anything..its the bar owners who choose to book DJs.
DJs dont run around trying to assassinate bands. Atleast I dont think so. Bars wanna make $$. Blame them Wink

Cant blame bar owners either. I cant think of one single club in the immediate central PA area that was built for the sole purpose of providing live music to make money. Not one! A bar is in the business to make money - period. That money is made from the sale of alcohol and or food. A venue has "entertainment" to attract more patrons to their place who will in turn DRINK or EAT. Thats it. Its very, very simple. If I were a bar owner, I wouldnt care if it was a DJ, a band, a mechanical bull, guitar hero or a monkey shoving bananas up its butt to get people in the door. I would pick who has the most potential to consistently get my venue a crowd and make me money. I really admire clubs who make an extra effort to support live music, but when the live music is not making them money, what are they to do? Not to mention the extra hassle it is to have a decent live band. No, dont blame the club owners.

So who is to blame? How about the bands themselves? How about a generation obsessed over self image, "respect me" mentalities, reality TV, technology, instant gratification and an attention span of about a nanosecond?

In my opinion its a combination of both. I also think the "True American Band"; a band of one or more distorted guitars, a bass, a good singer, and who makes music with intelligent lyrics and writes songs that go past the 3:20 mark is a dying breed.

Care to talk about where bands are falling short? Thats a whole other thread. The fact of the matter is live music in this area has not adapted to what the younger generation wants to hear and there is a shit ton of homogeneity among the "pop" & "classic" rock bands. The other end of the spectrum are the bands that play sub genres and have a very specific, yet dedicated, following and not a mass market appeal.

Its all about money and numbers for the club. Its all about playing in a band that delivers what the people want to hear. DJs have filled the void where area bands have left one.

Chew on that one would ya

/rant

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:56 pm

Damn Steve, I'm really enjoying your presence back on Rockpage, because you always tell the truth and that truth's backed up by years of experience in the musical "real world."

Sorry for the run-on, Captain G.

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:06 pm

i hate to burst your bubble junior, but i'm not part of that younger into as you state "image" mentality. i have been playing music for 32 years, its not about image its about ART. DJ is out to make money, I'm not, thats why i have a DAY job... ok my rants over... this is just my opinion and i know mine doesn't matter.....

4_the_pocket · Post by **4_the_pocket** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:19 pm

todd17063 wrote:i hate to burst your bubble junior, but i'm not part of that younger into as you state "image" mentality. i have been playing music for 32 years, its not about image its about ART. DJ is out to make money, I'm not, thats why i have a DAY job... ok my rants over... this is just my opinion and i know mine doesn't matter.....

Your opinion matters, but I think youre missing my point...especially for a senior

The OT was about a band getting bounced for a DJ. This board also seems to slag on DJs a lot. I posted my thoughts on why this is and how we as musicians in live bands may want to look at the problem from a different perspective.

IN THIS AREA, bands need to realize a bars intent and purpose is not for us to play and present art. WE ARE THERE as a means for bars to attract patrons to their establishment. In a way, if youre going the bar route, we need each other. But that balance has been shifting in the bars favor due to what I mentioned in my previous post, blah, blah.

Do you see it differently? Is the music "scene" the same now as it was 32 years ago? You cant possibly think it is unless you have been playing VFWs and Moose clubs all these years

This is good discussion. Blaming the DJs might feel good for us to vent about, but the real problem is how can we adapt to get some of the market share back? I dont have the answers. I have some ideas.

ans PS....thanks for calling me junior. Made my day

4_the_pocket · Post by **4_the_pocket** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:27 pm

bassist_25 wrote:Damn Steve, I'm really enjoying your presence back on Rockpage, because you always tell the truth and that truth's backed up by years of experience in the musical "real world."

Sorry for the run-on, Captain G.

Nice, Paul

I think Captain G could give me a hand with my posts

Post by **Jim Price** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:49 pm

I agree with 4_the_Pocket here.

I used to have the "blame the DJ" mentality too at one point, stemming from the early '90s when Classic Attitudes first opened in Altoona and the crowds headed there, while live music venues saw a drastic reduction in folks attending shows.

But after a while, I had my own realization of what was going on. Why were people flocking to Classics instead of live music venues? The overall music scene had changed in the early '90s with the advent of grunge. Music took on a darker image, and casual fans looking for upbeat, feelgood music and a good time from area bands were getting brooding music and downer lyrics. They gravitated to Classics because they were no longer getting that "good time" feel from a number of the local bands.

In analyzing how to win fans back to live music, you need to get inside of fans' heads...what do they want to hear and see? What do you bring to the live stage that a fan can't get from the DJ? Can you deliver the good time, and take fans' minds off of the problems of their work week? Can you deliver a quality show, or are you just going through the motions onstage to collect the paycheck at night's end?

And I also tend to agree that live music and DJ's needn't be exclusive of one another and be adversarial. I've seen a few situations over the years where the two can combine forces to provide the overall good time experience for fans. The Saloon in State College regularly has JP Mills (a musician himself) playing dance tunes and videos between band sets to keep the crowd dancing and entertained. Redawg used to deejay in between band sets at The Castle Pub a few years ago, which helped keep folks around.

Yes, some bars still do bump bands in favor of deejays. As 4_the_Pocket said, it's not the bar owner's job to make your band happen. The bar owner is out to maximize earnings on a given night. And in the current tough economic climate, it's even tougher to fault a bar owner for going with the cheaper option if it's bringing heads through the door. Instead of pointing fingers at the DJ or bar owner, ask yourself what you and your band can do to attract more fans, and brainstorm ideas to make your show more appealing and attractive to potential new fans.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:01 pm

Yeah Steve, but how many monkeys will shove bananas up their butt's for the door?

How many times will a dj ever have to play to the opening dj and the waitstaff?

I agree, it's not the dj's fault or the bartenders, as BDR said about a week ago: "Provide a QUALITY service and you'll have no worries."

Rickster- Hit up the search function and type in "PAY YOUR DUES" lol. see how many hits you get. We've all been there. It's cool you still got a gig at the place. Pull a bigger crowd than the dj and flip the script on them brother.

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:02 pm

HUH ??? please type all posts with the caplock ON so I can hear you !!! Next Dj I see i'm gonna run his ass over with my Rascal scooter !!! I don't mind bars having a Dj, however its becoming more and more evident that they are taking over. Like i said i'm not in it for the money. If I could i would play street corners I just want to get out and play. If i make a buck or two thats fine. Djs are just in it for the money. I know around here in mifflin county all the Djs play is that hip hop crap and i'm sure as hell not changing the set list to play that CRAP to get asses in the door. Usually good advertising handles that. I know bar owners are all about bottom line and i totally respect that. ok gotta run, the scooter is done charging i gotta go get my free senior cup of coffee from Mickey D's

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:03 pm

I have to agree that we are in it to make money. However, I do think that its wrong to bump a booking just to take another. That's just not good business either. You do it enough, when you really want a band, they won't be available to you.

This reminds me....We had a customer come in about two weeks ago and walk up to us just to let us know that he's been to many places with live music in the Pittsburgh area. And out of all the places that he and his wife have been to, he thinks that we do the best job in providing quality entertainment. We cut out the DJ. We limit who we ask to play and its not because of the quality of the band so much as we stick to the style that works in our area. Its hard for me to book bands that I do not know now. We can't pay a lot of money out and those bands that play for us, they all work with us and work well. Most of them do a lot of self promotion because they know they depend on the turnout to make the money. In 5 years, we hope to have things well underway and we hope to continue the live music in the area. The bands that work with us will be the first to start seeing the rewards. At some point, we want to remodel the place and make it a better place to play and its our regular bands that will get to help us make it their place.

We've had DJ's. And yes, sometimes they do draw in a few more. But, in all honesty, we find acoustics work better. Its not the hip hop dance music, but it is a lot of great fun with personality showing behind the music.

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:14 pm

I agree 110% ..with a band you o get personality, and even if its a cover band you still get originality with how the band goes about covering the music..

4_the_pocket · Post by **4_the_pocket** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:49 pm

DirtySanchez wrote:Yeah Steve, but how many monkeys will shove bananas up their butt's for the door?

How many times will a dj ever have to play to the opening dj and the waitstaff?

I dont how many monkeys would be willing, but Id pay a dollar to watch one try

I hear what your saying and its all about paying dues for sure, but in my opinion the only things a DJ and band share in common are they are both entertainers that deliver music. The methods, logistics, reasons and skill sets for the delivery are completely different.

DirtySanchez wrote:I agree, it's not the dj's fault or the bartenders, as BDR said about a week ago: "Provide a QUALITY service and you'll have no worries."

No truer words right there.

And to that point, JP hit it right on the head. What can we do as bands to create a unique "experience" for the fans? Its true that both can coexist together in the same night in this area, though I think its rare. I just played the Saloon Saturday and have many times in the past. As soon as JP Mills turns up the THUMP, THUMP, THUMP pulse...more people hit the dance floor. Of course, maybe the bands I played with sucked

todd17063 wrote:HUH ??? please type all posts with the caplock ON so I can hear you !!! Next Dj I see i'm gonna run his ass over with my Rascal scooter !!! I don't mind bars having a Dj, however its becoming more and more evident that they are taking over. Like i said i'm not in it for the money. If I could i would play street corners I just want to get out and play. If i make a buck or two thats fine. Djs are just in it for the money. I know around here in mifflin county all the Djs play is that hip hop crap and i'm sure as hell not changing the set list to play that CRAP to get asses in the door. Usually good advertising handles that. I know bar owners are all about bottom line and i totally respect that. ok gotta run, the scooter is done charging i gotta go get my free senior cup of coffee from Mickey D's

Todd, Im not trying to bust on you or be disrespectful. I quoted your thoughts because they allow me to illustrate my point. The things you say have been said by many here on rockpage. Im not just replying to you, but to others interested in the topic as well. Come on dude, you know how it works here

At least we are being civil and having good discussion. So far

Haha, but to address your reply to me.....

If you want to run a DJ over thats on you. Consequences, consequences

To play devils advocate here. You would play for nothing just to play? Would you undercut a band just to do that? Arent you then guilty of doing what you are accusing DJs of? Be careful of those double edge standards, friend. DJs arent undercutting anybody....Ive laid out my counterpoints to that argument already and feel no need to restate them. You either get what Im saying or you dont. You eithre agree with it or you dont.....either is fine.

Todd and others who dont care about playing for money, thats cool....TOTALLY. However, there are some of us who actually do like to make a buck or two to play. Some even count on it to live a better lifestyle, put some food on the table, or like me - enjoy buying cool new toys. We care about this stuff. Its possible to love the music AND want to be compensated for it too.

I also hear your point about not wanting to change your setlist to include hip-hop or whatever the trend is these days. That is your choice. By making that choice though, and not adapting to the changing times, then you really have no room to bitch when the things around you ARE changing and you are left sitting in the dust.

todd17063 · Post by **todd17063** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:53 pm

i need my diaper changed

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