Drums!!!

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:02 am

I'll be there! Sounds awesome!

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:37 pm

Any of you guys have a drum tuner you don't want/use and want to sell?

Jsun76 · Post by **Jsun76** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:57 pm

Do you mean a drum key? If so I have about 20 of them around the house, you are more than welcome to have one if you like.

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:20 pm

I do have a drum key, but I am looking for one of those tension tuners because I can't get my drums to sound very good. It's not a bad set, so it's pretty much my inexperience. Thanks for the offer, though!

Big-H · Post by **Big-H** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:22 pm

ill bring 1 saturday///

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:35 pm

Thanks, Harry. I didn't want to bug ya for it and figured I'd try to get one if anyone had one they could part with.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:08 pm

hicksjd9 wrote:Any of you guys have a drum tuner you don't want/use and want to sell?

You would be better off learning how to tune with your ears. It takes practice, just like learning how to play.

Don't expect drums to sound like that which you hear on a recording. That sound has been compressed, gated and EQd.

There are three general ideas to tuning toms.
Batter tighter than reso
Batter and reso the same pitch
Reso tuned higher than the batter

Thomas Lang said he tunes the batter to feel good and the reso for pitch. He tunes the reso lower than the batter. In this case the reso usually carries the perceived pitch.

If both are tuned to the same pitch, the sustain is increased but there is also a possible side effect of a pulsating that can be annoying if they are not matched in pitch well.

If the reso is tuned higher than the batter, the batter carries the pitch. It also reduces sustain but not resonance, which are two different things. CCdurms (Clint) likes to tune his reso a minor third higher than the batter.

I used to tune with the reso lower than the batter - it gave kind of a pitch bend. Today I tune the reso higher than the batter. But not always a minor third. I experiment with each tom to see what the reso sounds best at. Sometimes it might only be a half step. In this scenario the batter carries the pitch.

Some people like to tune the toms to a specific pitch (note). It works well for some people.

Batter = top head
Reso = bottom head

Snare drum takes experimentation to see what YOU like. I almost always have the reso tuned higher than the batter. Good snare wires make a difference too.

Bass drum. Generally, just tuned above wrinkle - then tweak.

dbdrummer89 · Post by **dbdrummer89** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:53 pm

Hawk pretty much hit the nail on the head up there, but just to add on.

If you find that your drums have a ring to them that you don't like, music emporium sells a product called moon gels to dampen the sound (take the ring out). Essentially, they're just little squares of gel that you put on your drum, they stick to it, and change the sound sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse.

Moongels are, however, an absolute rip off

. If you have any of those sticky hand things, they work just as well, or anything else with the same consistency. Moongels look more professional, but it'll sound the same (again, only if you're having a problem with ringing).

Some drummers like to use duct tape as needed on parts of the batter and/or reso head. This has the same effect as moon gels, but it often leaves a residue on the heads. It's easy enough to get off with the right adhesive remover, but some people don't like to bother.

slackin@dabass · Post by **slackin@dabass** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:48 pm

dbdrummer89 wrote:Hawk pretty much hit the nail on the head up there, but just to add on.

If you find that your drums have a ring to them that you don't like, music emporium sells a product called moon gels to dampen the sound (take the ring out). Essentially, they're just little squares of gel that you put on your drum, they stick to it, and change the sound sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse.

Moongels are, however, an absolute rip off . If you have any of those sticky hand things, they work just as well, or anything else with the same consistency. Moongels look more professional, but it'll sound the same (again, only if you're having a problem with ringing).

Some drummers like to use duct tape as needed on parts of the batter and/or reso head. This has the same effect as moon gels, but it often leaves a residue on the heads. It's easy enough to get off with the right adhesive remover, but some people don't like to bother.

usually, though, if you tune your drums right, there is no ring, except for the snare, but if you muffle the snare, and take the ring out, you lose projection. make sure each tuning rod is at the same pitch around the drum. always tighten down across the drum instead of around it (like lug nuts on a car's wheel).

a good piece of advice that i got from rob the drummer is the aquarian super kick 2 bass drum head. best kick head on the market as far as i'm concerned. you use that on the batter and a remo powerstroke 3 for the front side and your bass drum will sound like a friggin' cannon!

tuning drums really isn't that hard. you just gotta keep a few general rules in mind, and then experiment from there. it does suck that drum heads are so expensive, but, you get what you pay for. evans g2s are the shit, by the way. i'd suggest them to anyone for tom batters. and a snare never sounds bad with a remo ambassador coated head. those are just my opinions, of course, but i like to think i know what sounds good

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:53 pm

Thanks for the pointers, Hawk, DB, and Slackin. I'm taking my computer out to the garage now to try out everything you guys said. Harry told me about the drum dial thing and I wanted to try that out, too. I mean, if I get them sounding good and I can write down the settings that I get with the drum dial, then won't I be able to recreate the sound I like again when I change the heads? I guess it's just a way to take the guesswork out of changing the drum heads.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:28 pm

hicksjd9 wrote:Thanks for the pointers, Hawk, DB, and Slackin. I'm taking my computer out to the garage now to try out everything you guys said. Harry told me about the drum dial thing and I wanted to try that out, too. I mean, if I get them sounding good and I can write down the settings that I get with the drum dial, then won't I be able to recreate the sound I like again when I change the heads? I guess it's just a way to take the guesswork out of changing the drum heads.

Make sure your tension rods and lugs are properly cleaned and then lubricated. That way your drum dial tuner will judge the tension evenly across the head.

I've heard heads after they were used and the head had a different pitch at each lug, something you can avoid by cleaning / lubricating.

WD 40 will clean them. I use a polymer lubricant because it is clean and won't damage the finish. Bicycle shops also sell good clean bearing lubes. It only takes a tiny amount of lube. I use a toothpick and put a small amount inside of the lug rather than on the tension rod. This way no excess ends up on the outside of the lug.

I would suggest using as little moon gel if you use it at all. Try cutting into four pieces and use one of those. While it may kill some unwanted overtones, it also cuts some of the fundamental pitch. I carry moon gel with me, but only use it sparingly.

Moon Gel is a controversial topic. I've seen great drummers like Donati use them and I've heard many drummers say they are a cover up for poor tuning. Sometimes, if you have too many overtones, it is a poor mounting system, not allowing the drum shell to vibrate freely. A Gauger rim mount can fix that.

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:31 am

"tuning drums really isn't that hard".

Hawk sure made it sound hard.

dbdrummer89 · Post by **dbdrummer89** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:01 am

haha...it's not all that hard, but its incredibly tedious if nothing else

Ive heard good things about waxing the bearing edges to get a better sound too....apparently it makes the tuning process go a lot smoother. I tried it myself but haven't noticed a significant difference. Anyone have any first hand info on it?

CCdrums · Post by **CCdrums** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:37 am

Waxing the bearing edge does help to smooth out the edge and make tuning a bit easier, but it's a very subtle difference. Tuning is a very subjective thing. Not everyone likes the same sounds and therefore, different methods of tuning are employed. Most importantly, try to get the drums sounding good to YOUR ear. It's no fun playing a kit that you think doesn't sound or feel good. I have tons of experience with drum tuning and I actually conducted a tuning "clinic" last year at a drummer's get together. Different drums have different characteristics and experimentation is best to find out what will work with your particular situation. There are general guidelines that should be followed to enable you to get the best sound possible from your drums. From there, it's just a matter of personal preference. My tuning method is very precise and it makes the task of tuning very easy (for me). Drum dials will get you in the ballpark, but for me, they're not precise enough. Just because the tension at a lug point is the same around the drum according to a drum dial, doesn't mean that the pitch on the head at each lugpoint will be the same. I find that evening out the pitches at each lug point eliminates weird overtones much more effectively than going by the tension on a drum dial. I have developed an ear and a preference for wide open sounding drums and I never use any kind of muffling on my snare or toms, both live and studio. Also, most of the time I tune my bottom heads tighter than my tops in a musical interval that is complimentary to the pitch of the top head. For me, it just makes the drums sound much more lively and helps them to cut through frequencies from other instruments that sometimes muddle up the sound of the drums. It works for me and countless other players whose kits I have tuned, but that's just my personal preference. Once you tune drums for a while and get some sounds you are happy with and hear how they sound within a band setting and on tape, you will begin to develop your tuning skills and have a great sounding kit all the time. It just takes time and persistence. Keep at it and good luck!

Mapex Drummer · Post by **Mapex Drummer** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:51 pm

CC, you should write a book or make a video about your tuning method. I've heard you talk about it before and it seems easy, but it would be nice to see you demonstrate it. It sucks that I live to far away cuz I would love to come to one of the Drum Nights.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:13 pm

Clint, I've been harassing Dave to get that DVD done. We need to put some pressure on him. Sure he's busy, recording the symphony and teaching and recording contracts in his studio, but this is more important.

Just sayin'...

CCdrums · Post by **CCdrums** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:18 pm

Mapex Drummer wrote:CC, you should write a book or make a video about your tuning method. I've heard you talk about it before and it seems easy, but it would be nice to see you demonstrate it. It sucks that I live to far away cuz I would love to come to one of the Drum Nights.

Hey man,
If you really want to learn about it and are sincere in your efforts to get a better grip on tuning, if you live relatively close by (within an hour or so), I would be willing to take an afternoon and drive to wherever you are to teach you the method. Think about it and let me know. You can PM me.

CCdrums · Post by **CCdrums** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:19 pm

Hawk wrote:Clint, I've been harassing Dave to get that DVD done. We need to put some pressure on him. Sure he's busy, recording the symphony and teaching and recording contracts in his studio, but this is more important.

Just sayin'...

I know man, I think monkeys will fly out of my butt first though.....