Libertarians Vs. the Republicans

[Hawk]

I like some (not all, but some) things the Libertarians preach. I dislike the Republican hypocrites who preach conservatism and spend like hell. The Republicans who only care about the rich. The Republicans who are led by Rush Limbaugh. (Regan, Bush 1 and Bush 2 created bigger deficits than any one before them). And many more examples of hypocrisy.

I like the push and pull of the two party system. Now is the time IMHO for the Libertarians to step up to the plate and replace the Republicans as the other party.

They should step up to the plate now, while the door is open.

I'm not looking to debate anyone - just making a statement that's been on my mind.

Go back to your regular music oriented threads.

[lonewolf]

I hate the Republican hypocrites who preach conservatism and spend like hell.

Agreed (change hate to dislike).

I also dislike the Democrat hypocrites who talk right-of-center during the campaign and then turn into the son of Karl Marx after they are elected.

(I'm not sure I'm capable of actually hating anyone)

[slackin@dabass]

we tried to step up this election. i really thought ron paul could have made it. it's a shame though, that a great libertarian had to get on the republican ticket to be taken seriously. that's a shame.


bill, i hate the push and pull of a two party system. there should be way more parties then there is. that way everyone truely is represented.

[whitedevilone]

Bill i knew it was only a matter of time till you fell off the wagon .Weren't you pullin for Edwards way back in the day?That must be a tough pill to swallow.Just sayin.I'm out.

Ron Paul 2012.

[Hawk]

we tried to step up this election. i really thought ron paul could have made it. it's a shame though, that a great libertarian had to get on the republican ticket to be taken seriously. that's a shame.


bill, i hate the push and pull of a two party system. there should be way more parties then there is. that way everyone truely is represented.

Unfortunately it comes down to money. If you want support from either party, (and you need their money to survive) you pretty much have to adopt most of their planks. Then they'll throw money in your direction for your campaigns. And campaigns are ALL about spending... So I doubt we'll ever see a three (or more) party system.

[Hawk]

Bill i knew it was only a matter of time till you fell off the wagon .Weren't you pullin for Edwards way back in the day?That must be a tough pill to swallow.Just sayin.I'm out.

Ron Paul 2012.

Back in the day, I stated the things that I like from the Libertarians. I said several time they need to incrementally introduce their ideas and let each idea live or die on it's own. To make a complete change all at once won't fly with the American people.

[tornandfrayed]

Bill, starting your post the way you did makes it hard for people to get on board. I am really starting to think that we need to change our conversation, not our party. I can talk to you about the things that we care about and the things that we have in common. I am with Jeff on the whole hate thing, it is tough. I am not going to rub anyone's face in anything cause that is the problem.

We have to work together, I have said this a million times but I will keep saying it. Our government serves us not the other way around. I say it is times to fire the vast majority of them and re define what we want from our government.

2 party system is crap but so is the bowl system. Seems like neither is changing much. When we vote we express our ideals. When we go out and talk to others about voting and about our ideals we change the world.

I hate to express to much optimism on this board (herman) but I am going to anyway. We the people still hold the power but we choose to sit behind a keyboard and bitch and moan rather then going out and talking to people about making our world better.

We have musicians that believe that politics and music don't mix and therefore we have no politic power in the local "scene". The best we can hope for is too "buy more alcohol and tip your waiters". That is admirable but it is not going to change the world.

I believe in people though and I believe that when it comes down to it the people will save the day. Just like they always have. I am afraid of the "haters" though. If we get too many haters and it becomes the common place then when it is time there will be too much hatred too put aside, too much animosity to help each other.

Just an idea....

PS too much change won't fly with the American people. I heard a young person say the other day that stupid people should not be allowed to vote. IQ test anyone? Wouldn't it be strange to have to have an IQ of over 140 to vote? What would that do?

[Hawk]

When the Republican leaders are afraid to stand up to Rush, they either need all new leaders or (as I stated) the Libertarians should simply replace the whole party.

[Banned]

The Republicans are fading away. Good Riddance. They were like Democrat Lite. There are still too many of them to completely die off though. Why not 3 or more parties. England and Israel and many other countries have multiple parties for example. There is no written rule that we need 2 major parties. We really have one, the Republocrats. I know that McCain would be passing the same bills as Hussein.

Anyone who is for the idea of following the Constitution and against American being the world wide Empire (that we cannot afford), lets join up and make the Libertarian party (or pick whatever name you want) a viable choice for the American people.

I am pro Constitution, anti Empire.

[lonewolf]

2 party system is crap but so is the bowl system. Seems like neither is changing much.

This system is all about checks and balances. The whole idea was to keep the federal government as small as possible, yet still fulfill its Constitutional obligations of defense and interstate relations. If one party wanted to significantly expand the role of federal government, it was thought that the other party would quickly move to deter that expansion. This tug-of-war was specifically designed to keep the federal government small and in check.

That worked fine until the state governments fumbled the ball, most notably during the Great Depression. Constituents discovered that they could get crumbs from the federal table and voted those into power who would ignore the Constitution and sweep them the most crumbs. Once the debate changed from big government versus small government into what kind of crumbs to sweep the voters, the likelyhood of an effective federal government was gone.

Instead of a large government with a firm policy that can be improved over time, we now have a large government that simply changes what flavor of crumbs are swept to us every 4 or 8 years. No policy is allowed to stand the test of time. The tug of war continues.

This is why our federal government cannot and does not successfully function as a large government that handles social problems--it was simply not designed to do that.

If you want a large, effective federal government, you should contact your representatives and tell them that we need a Constitutional Convention so we can scrap the old Constitution and change over to a Parliamentary system.

[Banned]

If you want a large, effective federal government, you should contact your representatives and tell them that we need a Constitutional Convention so we can scrap the old Constitution and change over to a Parliamentary system.

Many of us don't want a large federal gov. We just want our politicians to follow the original Constitution, like they are SUPPOSED TO anyway. That is is why we need a new political party.

[lonewolf]

If you want a large, effective federal government, you should contact your representatives and tell them that we need a Constitutional Convention so we can scrap the old Constitution and change over to a Parliamentary system.

Many of us don't want a large federal gov. We just want our politicians to follow the original Constitution, like they are SUPPOSED TO anyway. That is is why we need a new political party.

You know that I'm in full agreement with you on that.

I just wanted to illustrate what should be self-evident to anyone who was conscious at any time during the past 40 years or so.

[Banned]

If you want a large, effective federal government, you should contact your representatives and tell them that we need a Constitutional Convention so we can scrap the old Constitution and change over to a Parliamentary system.

Many of us don't want a large federal gov. We just want our politicians to follow the original Constitution, like they are SUPPOSED TO anyway. That is is why we need a new political party.

You know that I'm in full agreement with you on that.

I just wanted to illustrate what should be self-evident to anyone who was conscious at any time during the past 40 years or so.

That's the question, how many sheeple are conscious?

[f.sciarrillo]

Ron Paul 2012.

I agree ..